B/S/T Etiquette

[bk400]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

It is certainly much more accepted that a small business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone (as evidenced by many small shops with signs stating just that), than the largest retailer in the world refusing service to someone. So yes, you could say "community standards" play a part in why one might not choose to refuse to sell to someone.

So you'd be ok with being that first customer? You wouldn't be offended at all that the shopkeeper didn't sell it to you even though you offered first?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by bk400

So you'd be ok with being that first customer? You wouldn't be offended at all that the shopkeeper didn't sell it to you even though you offered first?

It's their right.

I guess some of us aren't as easily offended as others (or feel as entitled as others).

[Musashi]

I'm trying to decide if the most amusing thing about this thread is:

a) Most of the discussion is about a scenario that is different from the OP's question

b) Very early on in the thread, it was revealed that the entire premise of the original post (that OP made the first offer to buy but the seller never accepted his offer and sold to someone else) DIDN'T HAPPEN. The seller sold to the first offer he received, and has the time stamps to prove it. Yet somehow, that's getting lost in a discussion of the finer points of offer and acceptance - which is fascinating, but not relevant to the matter at hand.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Musashi

I'm trying to decide if the most amusing thing about this thread is:

a) Most of the discussion is about a scenario that is different from the OP's question

b) Very early on in the thread, it was revealed that the entire premise of the original post (that OP made the first offer to buy but the seller never accepted his offer and sold to someone else) DIDN'T HAPPEN. The seller sold to the first offer he received, and has the time stamps to prove it. Yet somehow, that's getting lost in a discussion of the finer points of offer and acceptance - which is fascinating, but not relevant to the matter at hand.

Just because OP's premise turned out to be false, doesn't lessen the relevance of the discussion to this board, as evidenced by so many wanting to participate in the discussion.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Musashi

I'm trying to decide if the most amusing thing about this thread is:

a) Most of the discussion is about a scenario that is different from the OP's question

b) Very early on in the thread, it was revealed that the entire premise of the original post (that OP made the first offer to buy but the seller never accepted his offer and sold to someone else) DIDN'T HAPPEN. The seller sold to the first offer he received, and has the time stamps to prove it. Yet somehow, that's getting lost in a discussion of the finer points of offer and acceptance - which is fascinating, but not relevant to the matter at hand.

B should be the answer because it is just that silly. Saying that it is A by a country mile because of all the off topic posts by a few that love to argue. Heck these threads are my daily dose of comedy.

[fkm_bky]

Oddly interesting topic and unfortunate initial post.

I kept reading to see if Phil responded with an apology, or some level of contrition for openly calling someone out and potentially damaging their reputation without having a shred of fact to back it up. Says more to me than anything on this topic.

I have had dozens of successful transactions on the BST both buying and selling and would not like someone questioning my ethics without proper cause. Did they all go perfectly, no, but we worked through anything behind the scenes like adults instead of whining to everyone on the board.

Bill

[jingram058]

As I have said, my experiences on the B/S/T have all been a pleasure. But I am fairly certain that if shenanigans like having a deal in place, then someone offers to pay the seller more, and the seller then renegs, if that became known to Leon, pretty sure one or two things would happen. Seller would probably be warned to not ever do that again, or perhaps the seller would be given the boot to go peddle their trash elsewhere.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by jingram058

As I have said, my experiences on the B/S/T have all been a pleasure. But I am fairly certain that if shenanigans like having a deal in place, then someone offers to pay the seller more, and the seller then renegs, if that became known to Leon, pretty sure one or two things would happen. Seller would probably be warned to not ever do that again, or perhaps the seller would be given the boot to go peddle their trash elsewhere.

I'm not sure anyone here has or would advocate that is allowable. In fact, when it was brought up before, literally everyone who commented said it was wrong (and is a breach of contract).

[Leon]

I have stayed out of the conversation on purpose. The written rules on this forum are very unobtrusive on purpose.

If someone backs out of "a" deal, and no (hard) money was lost, then they probably aren't going to get the boot. It happens.

If it happens again, or very often, then that might change. But everyone gets a "grace" every now and then. The less rules the better!!! Which, I think, is different than most forums or groups. No one is going to force anyone to do anything. IF someone wants to sue someone over something, go for it. Net54baseball, like eBay, relies on Section 230 of the Federal Communications and Decency Act. I used to get all kinds of C and D orders and I almost always told the lawyer calling to F OFF and go read Section 230, then get back to me. None every did.

Originally Posted by jingram058

As I have said, my experiences on the B/S/T have all been a pleasure. But I am fairly certain that if shenanigans like having a deal in place, then someone offers to pay the seller more, and the seller then renegs, if that became known to Leon, pretty sure one or two things would happen. Seller would probably be warned to not ever do that again, or perhaps the seller would be given the boot to go peddle their trash elsewhere.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by Musashi

I'm trying to decide if the most amusing thing about this thread is:

a) Most of the discussion is about a scenario that is different from the OP's question

b) Very early on in the thread, it was revealed that the entire premise of the original post (that OP made the first offer to buy but the seller never accepted his offer and sold to someone else) DIDN'T HAPPEN. The seller sold to the first offer he received, and has the time stamps to prove it. Yet somehow, that's getting lost in a discussion of the finer points of offer and acceptance - which is fascinating, but not relevant to the matter at hand.

And also the OP disappeared without a word. Just leaving those allegations out there after being proven wrong...Yet he's the one who brought up etiquette

[Mark17]

Just to beat a dead horse, back in the 1980s, when I was breaking vending cases by the hundreds, the typical way to sell was to mail out a pricelist to my regular customers in March (to take pre-orders which were estimated to ship mid-may, after the cards had been sorted,) and print ads in SCD and BHN. My partner & friend Carson Ritchey and I would go through the players we expected to be included in the sets, and come up with prices for them. The rookies were the tough ones to price, of course, but we did our best.

In May or early June of 1985, I got a call from a customer from North Dakota. His name was Brent Lee. He asked about Bret Saberhagen, who had been a little known rookie pitcher that I had priced at 7 cents. Brent said he'd take all that I had.

Given the dramatic shortcomings of having my pricelist printed in March, and the lead times for the SCD and BHN print ads, it was common for dealers to inform customers that prices, especially for rookies, was subject to change without notice. In other words, a dealer might publicly say he was offering Saberhagen rookies at 7 cents, but might very well not honor that price 3 weeks later when the customer called.

Anyway, I agreed to sell Brent all the Saberhagens I had, and a week later, when I'd gone through all my Royals boxes, I shipped him 1,400 odd cards, at 7 cents each, knowing by then they were selling hot at a dollar at shows.

Points being:
1. Circumstances can change between an offer and an acceptance, and changes can be made to offers reflecting this. Try responding to a print ad in a coin magazine in a hot bull market to see what I mean.
2. Once a deal is made, it's legally, morally, and ethically binding.

Word travels fast in this hobby, then as now, and backtracking on a deal does irreparable reputational damage. I think it's obvious, and everyone agrees, that is not the case here in this thread.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by bk400

So you'd be ok with being that first customer? You wouldn't be offended at all that the shopkeeper didn't sell it to you even though you offered first?

Since we’re having so much fun, let’s take this to the next level, but with some facts that maybe aren’t all that far from what could realistically happen in our world.

Let’s say you’re traveling for work. You stop by a local card shop and see a piece that you’re interested in buying. You tell the owner that you’ll take it for full price.

The owner responds to let you know that he was supposed to take it out of the case earlier because he has a long-time customer who has single handedly kept the store alive that called earlier in the day and is coming in this evening to check that exact card out and most likely buy it for full price. So he prefers to wait until after that customer makes a final decision.

Does that sequence of events leave you steamed and ready to tell off the LCS owner for jerking your chain around? Would your answer change if you suspect he might just be playing you to get a higher offer?

Let’s take it a step further. You decide that you’re not going down without a fight, so you offer an extra 30% to buy it right now. The LCS owner, being no dummy, sells it to you on the spot.

Now let’s turn the tables. If you were the long-time customer who was planning to buy it that evening, would you be steamed to show up that evening just to find that it was sold earlier in the day by some Johnny-Come-Lately from NEW YORK CITY!!!??

I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that in general, I’m not too inclined to get very steamed about cardboard. If it was something I’ve been questing to find for decades, I’d be more likely to be distraught if I missed out, for sure. But probably not enough to tell anyone off.

How would you react, if you were on one side of this interaction, or on the other?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by raulus

Since we’re having so much fun, let’s take this to the next level, but with some facts that maybe aren’t all that far from what could realistically happen in our world.

Let’s say you’re traveling for work. You stop by a local card shop and see a piece that you’re interested in buying. You tell the owner that you’ll take it for full price.

The owner responds to let you know that he was supposed to take it out of the case earlier because he has a long-time customer who has single handedly kept the store alive that called earlier in the day and is coming in this evening to check that exact card out and most likely buy it for full price. So he prefers to wait until after that customer makes a final decision.

Does that sequence of events leave you steamed and ready to tell off the LCS owner for jerking your chain around? Would your answer change if you suspect he might just be playing you to get a higher offer?

Let’s take it a step further. You decide that you’re not going down without a fight, so you offer an extra 30% to buy it right now. The LCS owner, being no dummy, sells it to you on the spot.

Now let’s turn the tables. If you were the long-time customer who was planning to buy it that evening, would you be steamed to show up that evening just to find that it was sold earlier in the day by some Johnny-Come-Lately from NEW YORK CITY!!!??

I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that in general, I’m not too inclined to get very steamed about cardboard. If it was something I’ve been questing to find for decades, I’d be more likely to be distraught if I missed out, for sure. But probably not enough to tell anyone off.

How would you react, if you were on one side of this interaction, or on the other?

I will reply to my wife or daughter to certain grievances they might have with the phrase "wouldn't it be easier to just let it go", to varying degrees of success.

Sometimes they will listen...and sometimes it will just end up getting ME in hot water with accusations of "minimizing" or "invalidating" their feelings.

Much like an internet chat board and most beaches or pools absent a lifeguard. Feel free to use at your own risk.