Soaking (water only) - 1915 Cracker Jack?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

But I thought soaking doesn't alter a card.

And yet somehow, you still passed the bar exam?

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It would be interesting if our experts weigh in on why this might have happened?

From abrasion. Not from soaking. Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by notfast

This was one of those times where you should have left it alone.

Really? You'd honestly prefer the before photo than the after photo? I think most people would definitely prefer the after pic.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snowman

And yet somehow, you still passed the bar exam?

Go take a bath with your altered cards.

I provided you with irrefutable proof that paper getting wet and then drying fundamentally changes the structure of the paper. Soaking a card alters both the structure and the appearance of a card, which happen to be the two most fundamental aspects to card condition. So if you can play mental gymnastics to justify your alterations, more power to you. But don't insult my intelligence in the process. It is YOU who couldn't pass the bar exam with that logic.

"Hur dur, I'm altering the appearance and structure of a card to make it more valuable, hur dur, but I'm not altering it." :rollseyes:

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Go take a bath with your altered cards.

I provided you with irrefutable proof that paper getting wet and then drying fundamentally changes the structure of the paper. Soaking a card alters both the structure and the appearance of a card, which happen to be the two most fundamental aspects to card condition. So if you can play mental gymnastics to justify your alterations, more power to you. But don't insult my intelligence in the process. It is YOU who couldn't pass the bar exam with that logic.

"Hur dur, I'm altering the appearance and structure of a card to make it more valuable, hur dur, but I'm not altering it." :rollseyes:

It's almost as if you believe your own bullshit

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It's almost as if you believe your own bullshit

I don't think even you believe yours.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It's almost as if you believe your own bullshit

This Ohio Lawyer is another one of these guys who is going to argue anything, no matter. Just ignore him. They hate that.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by jingram058

This Ohio Lawyer is another one of these guys who is going to argue anything, no matter. Just ignore him. They hate that.

Pot, meet Kettle

I admit I enjoy a debate. Unfortunately, you and snowball aren't very self-aware.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Go take a bath with your altered cards.

I provided you with irrefutable proof that paper getting wet and then drying fundamentally changes the structure of the paper. Soaking a card alters both the structure and the appearance of a card, which happen to be the two most fundamental aspects to card condition. So if you can play mental gymnastics to justify your alterations, more power to you. But don't insult my intelligence in the process. It is YOU who couldn't pass the bar exam with that logic.

"Hur dur, I'm altering the appearance and structure of a card to make it more valuable, hur dur, but I'm not altering it." :rollseyes:

Purists don't like to hear this, but most prewar (tobacco/candy) cards were once glued into albums and this is the reason why they survived this long. In other words, keeping them in albums is what preserved them. And soaking them is the reason we all enjoy these cards today. So, I'm all for it.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Purists don't like to hear this, but most prewar (tobacco/candy) cards were once glued into albums and this is the reason why they survived this long. In other words, keeping them in albums is what preserved them. And soaking them is the reason we all enjoy these cards today. So, I'm all for it.

I'm all for it, too. As long as we acknowledge that we are altering it by soaking it. Sometimes, altering something is necessary to preserve it. Doesn't make it less of an alteration, though.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I'm all for it, too. As long as we acknowledge that we are altering it by soaking it. Sometimes, altering something is necessary to preserve it. Doesn't make it less of an alteration, though.

Curious - does removing a card from the pack alter it?

Touching it with your fingers with no gloves on?

Seems like the bar could be really low when it comes to altering.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by raulus

Curious - does removing a card from the pack alter it?



Touching it with your fingers with no gloves on?



Seems like the bar could be really low when it comes to altering.

The bar can be anywhere we want it to be. For me, the distinction is are the things done to the card intended to enhance the condition or appeal of the card or not. If I drop a card and ding a corner, I have altered the card by definition. That isn't the type of alteration I'm concerned with. It's those alterations that increase the perceived market value of a card but aren't disclosed to potential buyers that I have a problem with.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

The bar can be anywhere we want it to be. For me, the distinction is are the things done to the card intended to enhance the condition or appeal of the card or not. If I drop a card and ding a corner, I have altered the card by definition. That isn't the type of alteration I'm concerned with. It's those alterations that increase the perceived market value of a card but aren't disclosed to potential buyers that I have a problem with.

I guess for me, you're right that alterations could be just about anything, including simply breathing on the card.

But if we're going to use it in a pejorative fashion, then it seems like calling everything an alteration might cause the word to no longer be meaningful.

Just for the record, I'm not in favor of altering cards, and the only cards that I've altered have been those cards that people are okay with altering - trimming down a box cut card like a Bazooka, for example.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I'm all for it, too. As long as we acknowledge that we are altering it by soaking it. Sometimes, altering something is necessary to preserve it. Doesn't make it less of an alteration, though.

Is removing something that wasn't part of the original card as issued truly altering? Using chemicals to do so, then sure. But plain old water, cotton swabs and the like? Is polishing a wax stain off the glossy surface also altering?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Is removing something that wasn't part of the original card as issued truly altering? Using chemicals to do so, then sure. But plain old water, cotton swabs and the like? Is polishing a wax stain off the glossy surface also altering?

Brushing something off the surface of a card is fundamentally different from removing something from within the very fibers of the paper. Water penetrates the surface of paper and removes things that have become intertwined with those fibers.

But this has been discussed ad nauseum here lately. I see no need for us to have this debate again. No one is changing anyone's mind.

[Belfast1933]

And to put a final bow tie on my experience here with this CJ Collins… I present my lovely new SGC 1.5 Collins

I think he looks very handsome in his new Tux and I look forward to finding just the right place in my card cave for him.

My lesson learned?

If soaking, go EASY on any gentle scrubbing (lost a few letters in this process…). But also, I very much prefer the final “after” results over the “before” dirt/scuff version.

I also am reminded that, once my cards are in my collection and on display, I spend 98% of the time enjoying the front of the card - and Eddie looks great to me