34 Goudey variation 1/1?

[Jobu]

Any chance you can post a high resolution scan? My knowledge of errors is primarily teens and back, but this seems to me like it might actually be missing the yellow. I wouldn't assume that the skin tone had yellow in it (though it might). I'd like to see the logo on the hat a bit better. Given how many Goudeys are out there, if this were due to sun fading I would think we would have seen lots of similar examples (for example, I have a ton of examples of T206 with sun fading) but I don't recall seeing another.

[brianp-beme]

If it was fading, wouldn't the angled blue banner (that contains Lou's signature) have faded some as well? It still seems to have fairly bold blue coloration.

It would be nice to see a little better image of this card.


Brian

[brianp-beme]

Well dang it all if I just didn't spot this 14 year old article on the Sports Collector's Daily website that discusses this very card.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ba-photo-deal/

And below is the photo from the article.

Brian

[NiceDocter]

I bought this “white” card at a show from a dealers commons 20 or so years ago…. it just didn’t look right to me so got it for a dollar or about that. Is it a real missing yellow card or is it sun faded??? I would also say none of his other cards looked like that….. it was the only one…

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

I bought this “white” card at a show from a dealers commons 20 or so years ago…. it just didn’t look right to me so got it for a dollar or about that. Is it a real missing yellow card or is it sun faded??? I would also say none of his other cards looked like that….. it was the only one…

That is a 1958 Topps and that year the yellow color almost fell off them. Seriously they are famously easy to fade the yellow of off.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

I bought this “white” card at a show from a dealers commons 20 or so years ago…. it just didn’t look right to me so got it for a dollar or about that. Is it a real missing yellow card or is it sun faded??? I would also say none of his other cards looked like that….. it was the only one…

This one is full sun faded from extensive exposure.





Yellow to white and green to blue are probably the easiest to make. You can take a yellow card and remove the yellow pretty quickly with nothing but light. It's not too difficult to not effect the other colors, even by honest accidental fading that wasn't done by a person trying to make and sell a fake error.

I actually like these cards, even though its just damage 99% of the time you see a yellow-to-white. Still looks cool.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

I bought this “white” card at a show from a dealers commons 20 or so years ago…. it just didn’t look right to me so got it for a dollar or about that. Is it a real missing yellow card or is it sun faded??? I would also say none of his other cards looked like that….. it was the only one…

Doesn't it make sense on Rocky's 58T Williams card that since the color at the bottom behind team name and position is different prove that yellow was never printed on the card?

I don't think sun fading would turn that from green to blue.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Doesn't it make sense on Rocky's 58T Williams card that since the color at the bottom behind team name and position is different prove that yellow was never printed on the card?

I don't think sun fading would turn that from green to blue.

Actually that is exactly what sun fading does. Just look at the never ending supply of Blue 1958 Hank Aaron cards one extremely dishonest seller has had for decades.

[frankbmd]

If it's a warm sunny summer, will there be a hoard of '34 Goudey's tanning at the beach?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Doesn't it make sense on Rocky's 58T Williams card that since the color at the bottom behind team name and position is different prove that yellow was never printed on the card?

I don't think sun fading would turn that from green to blue.

Green is easily turned into blue, with nothing but light.

If too much light (or other factors beyond quantity), colors beyond yellow-to-white and green-to-blue get dulled. Attached is an example, the bottom of the card on top was covered with a book, and the rest of the card hit with a certain kind of light. We can see the image is dulled out and washed out, because I hit it with a lot of light for a longer time, to illustrate the effect.

One can easily create a version that does not dull the other colors but using more moderate light and/or different light sources. These can happen for non-nefarious reasons too, for example a card left on display and exposed to light of the right brightness range for long enough, but some scammers have been making cards like this for awhile to sell as 'errors'. These undulled or less dull cards are often incorrectly believed to be 'legitimate'.

Yellow to white, green to blue, and for tobacco cards red to orange are the easiest color changes to have happen through honest exposure or through nefarious means intending to defraud. All can be made pretty quickly at home. The most problematic of these are probably the 1969 Topps white letter Mantle's. There is a true printing variation, with his last name in yellow or in white, with white being rare. However, you can pretty easily just remove the yellow in that area and make one at home.


Glues can create much weirder combinations and color problems, which are also often passed off as legitimate printing errors, but really are not. A majority of color-based printing errors are not errors and did not leave the factory that way.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

If it was fading, wouldn't the angled blue banner (that contains Lou's signature) have faded some as well? It still seems to have fairly bold blue coloration.

It would be nice to see a little better image of this card.


Brian

It really varies greatly by year/manufacturer on how each ink color fades. 99.9% of the time I can easily tell in hand. Almost always a faded card just looks duller overall next to a normal card. Then you look at it under a top lighted microscope you know for sure.

[tireolddawg]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Any chance you can post a high resolution scan? My knowledge of errors is primarily teens and back, but this seems to me like it might actually be missing the yellow. I wouldn't assume that the skin tone had yellow in it (though it might). I'd like to see the logo on the hat a bit better. Given how many Goudeys are out there, if this were due to sun fading I would think we would have seen lots of similar examples (for example, I have a ton of examples of T206 with sun fading) but I don't recall seeing another.

Bryan, that’s another point that has me still not quite sure. This set has plenty of yellow background cards, is 111 years old, and yet I’ve never seen another example of a card missing its background color. This is in contrast to the 58 Topps set where it seems fairly easy to find examples of cards affected by fading. I’d love to upload a higher resolution image but I’m brand new here, and when I made the original post I compressed the file size because it looked like the maximum file size was ~195KB. Any guidance on how to do that would be much appreciated.

[brianp-beme]

I copied and saved and cropped and reduced the image size, which I think makes it clearer. I still don't think the card looks like this due to fading, and I can't imagine the blue at the bottom would still be so bold if the sun had supposedly leached out the yellow background to the point of it being white.

I have posted that 14 year old photo again because it provides a nice, less glare image (curse those plastic slabs, and even those card sleeves) and provides a fair contrast of the white background to the cards typical yellow background. In my eyes the blue in the white background version (bottom, uniform lettering, and even perhaps the hat) appears darker than the blue in the regular yellow background card example shown.

Brian (by the way, not my thumbnails nor fingers)

[obcmac]

Missing color passes are like t206 wagners...not genuine unless proven otherwise (to me). Sun, water, chemicals, age...all impact pigments differently. It's much more likely on any "missing color" card that it has some after issue damage. Having never seen a goudey that missed a color pass and having seen hundreds of cards where something impacted one or more colors, I tend to think it's probably the latter rather than the former. Not to say it isn't a curiosity...and I hope you enjoy it.

[bnorth]

This is a real missing yellow card. See how the rest of the colors still pop. They are not dull in any way. It is actually one of the best looking most vibrantly colored version of this card I have seen. It is amazing looking in hand. Also with a top lighted microscope you will still find yellow on a real missing yellow and faded card. The faded card will have dull dirty looking yellow. The real missing yellow card can and usually will have a very small amount of yellow but it will be a bright shiny yellow.

[tireolddawg]

I enjoy hearing everyone’s opinions and thoughts. I decided to snag a cheap decent looking raw copy off of eBay to run some experiments. Will update with relevant results in the future if there are any.