Surprising baseball facts

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Reminds me of a piece I once owned. The original collector had found a way to combine two hobbies into one: baseball autographs, and writing to postmasters in obscure towns for hand cancellations featuring names related to the autograph collection. I still have one or two from this assemblage, but the page is long gone.

That's really neat--do you have any others?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Not that surprising to me. Cueto was on all those winning Giants teams. Sale has been on not great teams for most of his career

Edit, looked it up: only a couple of playoff years with the Giants, actually. Some of his Reds teams were good though, too.

He had an 18 win season when he first pitched for them, but then only won 21 the next five years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Of pitchers 30 and younger, the leader is Max Fried with .. wait for it ... 73. Once the old guard as it were of Verlander, Kerhshaw, and Scherzer get in, and Cole and Sale either do or don't, there is going to be a radical shift in what it means to be a HOF pitcher.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

That's really neat--do you have any others?

Just one. These had to be part of a larger collection, but to date, I've only ever seen the two or three I purchased.

There just has to be a town named John. The collector got a little sloppy here.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of pitchers 30 and younger, the leader is Max Fried with .. wait for it ... 73. Once the old guard as it were of Verlander, Kerhshaw, and Scherzer get in, and Cole and Sale either do or don't, there is going to be a radical shift in what it means to be a HOF pitcher.

Fewer wins and innings! It wouldn't surprise me if they change the win stat somehow in the coming years. I hope they don't but with Manfred you never know.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

...radical shift in what it means to be a HOF pitcher.

"...this legendary hurler had an incredible 3,005 innings in his Hall of Fame career, twice eclipsing the unthinkable mark of 200 in a season. He was the last pitcher to win over 100 games; his astounding total of 112 is unlikely to ever be reached again. He also holds the modern career record for complete games (7) and is the last pitcher to record a nine-inning no-hitter. He was the first pitcher to record over 4,000 rpm on a pitched ball, having done this between his third and fourth Tommy John surgeries..."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

"...this legendary hurler had an incredible 3,005 innings in his Hall of Fame career, twice eclipsing the unthinkable mark of 200 in a season. He was the last pitcher to win over 100 games; his astounding total of 112 is unlikely to ever be reached again. He also holds the modern career record for complete games (7) and is the last pitcher to record a nine-inning no-hitter. He was the first pitcher to record over 4,000 rpm on a pitched ball, having done this between his third and fourth Tommy John surgeries..."

You'll have dudes hitting 120 on the gun with 25 pitch counts.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Chet Lemon has the same career OBP and very nearly the same WAR as Ichiro.

[packs]

Many people would be surprised to know that Carlton Fisk led the American League in triples in 1972 with 9. No other catcher has led either league in triples since.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Chet Lemon has the same career OBP and very nearly the same WAR as Ichiro.

Same with Darrell Evans I believe and his OPS+ was significantly better.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Chet Lemon has the same career OBP and very nearly the same WAR as Ichiro.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Same with Darrell Evans I believe and his OPS+ was significantly better.

Of course, Ichiro didn't play in the MLB until he was 27. If he had, his WAR would definitely be higher but his OBP and OPS+ might be around the same or maybe a little better.

[stlcardsfan]

Ty Cobb could have gone 0 for his last 2530 at bats and still hit .300.

[Salfino]

Here's a good one for Maddux: 1995-2003; Faces 8,025 hitters and, excluding intentional walks, throws 8,006 balls, less than one per batter.

[Salfino]

Here's another one. In 1989, the first year they kept count, Nolan Ryan averaged 127 pitches per start. He also had a game with 167 five days after throwing 150. He was 42. FIP ERA: 2.51. 301 Ks.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Imagine Ryan with a little better control, and imagine him at least part of his career on better teams. 375 wins? That's only another 2 per year.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Imagine Ryan with a little better control, and imagine him at least part of his career on better teams. 375 wins? That's only another 2 per year.

1973 Ryan body with 1991 Ryan experience and skill would have been unreal.

[Vit-d]

In 1976 Randy Jones led the National League in both (a) most hits allowed, and (b) lowest WHIP.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Vit-d

In 1976 Randy Jones led the National League in both (a) most hits allowed, and (b) lowest WHIP.

And during that year he was the Cy Young winner, and has the distinction of having the least amount of strikeouts (93, in 315 innings pitched) for a starting pitcher who has won the award.

Brian

[rickalaska]

Mickey Mantle hit more than 100 RBIs in ONLY four seasons

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by rickalaska

Mickey Mantle hit more than 100 RBIs in ONLY four seasons

On a similar yet opposite note, I just learned today that John Kruk never had a 100 RBI season. I had taken it for granted that he would have had at least a few.

[frankbmd]

I've learned that future plans for Cooperstown include putting small plaques for future starting pitchers outside the front door. You only pay for admission if you want to enter the bullpen. If you complain, you are offered a half price ticket to visit the "Tommy John Pavilion" at the local hospital, that is actually larger than the current Hall of Fame (or bullpen). You can take a bus to the TJP or be issued a "Barry Bonds Intentional Walk".

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

On a similar yet opposite note, I just learned today that John Kruk never had a 100 RBI season. I had taken it for granted that he would have had at least a few.

I think I would have been more surprised to learn that John Kruk had a 100 RBI season. I watched him play for 6 seasons with the Phillies, and he hit for average and got on base a lot, but he was never considered a power hitter or big RBI guy for them. Also, for all but one season he was there, the Phillies weren't very good so usually weren't scoring a ton of runs.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I think I would have been more surprised to learn that John Kruk had a 100 RBI season. I watched him play for 6 seasons with the Phillies, and he hit for average and got on base a lot, but he was never considered a power hitter or big RBI guy for them. Also, for all but one season he was there, the Phillies weren't very good so usually weren't scoring a ton of runs.

I did figure that out by looking at the rest of his stats. I didn't have much of a chance to watch him, as the three cities who broadcasted games in my viewing area were all AL East teams. He just looked like such an intimidating presence that it was an assumption on my part!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Same with Darrell Evans I believe and his OPS+ was significantly better.

I was going more apples to apples for position, and people talk about Darrell Evans being underrated, never heard Chet Lemon brought up!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Imagine Ryan with a little better control, and imagine him at least part of his career on better teams. 375 wins? That's only another 2 per year.

I would say imagine his control improving earlier. The second half of his career nobody would've confused him with Maddux, but his walk numbers became respectable for a power pitcher.

EDIT: Not going after you Pete, I don't look at who I'm responding to. Didn't realize I hit you 2x in a row until it was done.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by rickalaska

Mickey Mantle hit more than 100 RBIs in ONLY four seasons

Mantle walked too much. This one surprised me, Tris Speaker only had 2 100 RBI seasons and none for the Red Sox.

In 1912 he had 222 hits, 53 2b, 12 3b, 10 HR and scored 136 runs, but only drove in 90. The Red Sox won 105 games that season and won the WS.

For a guy with 3514 hits and 1131 xb hits and 162 game averages of 204 and 66 respectively, you would have thought he would have driven in more runs. Honus Wagner drove in 100 runs 9 times and Ty Cobb did so 7 times.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mantle had seasons of 40 and 42 HR with RBI totals only in the 90s, meaning he only drove in 50 or so runners other than himself. That does seem odd given that he played on the best team in baseball at the time and was I believe batting clean up. And not like he was Adam Dunn who couldn't hit for average. I am not sure the walks completely explain it, but maybe they do.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by rats60

Mantle walked too much.

Same with Ted Williams, who never had 200 or more hits in a season.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Same with Ted Williams, who never had 200 or more hits in a season.

He took endless grief from the Boston writers and fans for walking too much. Of course, that was before WAR and such.

[molenick]

Originally Posted by rickalaska

Mickey Mantle hit more than 100 RBIs in ONLY four seasons

Vaguely related, Willie Mays never led the league in RBIs (he had 10 100+ RBI seasons).

[BobbyStrawberry]

One that surprised me recently:

Among pitchers with 1000 IP, Jake deGrom has the second-lowest career WHIP all-time, behind only Addie Joss.

He's been so injury-riddled lately (and pitched for some awful Mets teams) that I think people forget just how dominant he was at his peak.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He took endless grief from the Boston writers and fans for walking too much. Of course, that was before WAR and such.

As a kid playing the game we always thought, "a walk is a hit"...

.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

As a kid playing the game we always thought, "a walk is a hit"...

.

Boston fans are not rational, and the writers hated Williams for the most part so used anything they could to criticize him.

[Brent G.]

Despite his blazing speed, Vince Coleman was a kicker/punter at Division 1-AA Florida A&M, and kicked a game-winning field goal in an upset of the Miami Hurricanes in 1979. That year, he walked on to the baseball team.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

Despite his blazing speed, Vince Coleman was a kicker/punter...

That may be the most surprising thing I've read in this entire thread.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by Eric72

That may be the most surprising thing I've read in this entire thread.

Yeah, it's crazy. His brother Gregg was an NFL punter for 10+ years, but I don't think he could run a 4.3 40.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Mantle had seasons of 40 and 42 HR with RBI totals only in the 90s, meaning he only drove in 50 or so runners other than himself. That does seem odd given that he played on the best team in baseball at the time and was I believe batting clean up. And not like he was Adam Dunn who couldn't hit for average. I am not sure the walks completely explain it, but maybe they do.

Mantle almost always batted third. His career OB% was .421, allowing cleanup hitters like DiMaggio, Berra and Maris to hit in the first inning with a runner on base. Mantle had 9 straight seasons of 100+ runs scored.

He led the league in WAR 6 times, runs 5 times, home runs 4 times and OPS+ 8 times. He had 9 seasons where he finished in the top 5 in MVP voting.

[texmrsport]

For the 1971 Phillies, pitcher Rick Wise was tied for 5th on the club with 6 home runs.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by texmrsport

For the 1971 Phillies, pitcher Rick Wise was tied for 5th on the club with 6 home runs.

Two of those were in the same game. He also happened to pitch a no-hitter that day.

[akleinb611]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Boston fans are not rational, and the writers hated Williams for the most part so used anything they could to criticize him.

If you combined Philadelphia sports fans with the Boston press, the resulting explosion could end life on Earth as we know it.

[clydepepper]

Circling back to the great Warren Spahn:

Forgive me if I've shared this more than once before...just find it amazing>


Spahn's uniform number was '21'

He was born in 1921 and made his Big League debut as a 21-year-old.

He won exactly 21 games EIGHT different years!

.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by texmrsport

For the 1971 Phillies, pitcher Rick Wise was tied for 5th on the club with 6 home runs.

In 1968, pitcher Earl Wilson was 9th in offensive WAR for the Tigers, ahead of 3 of their regular infielders. Also 9th in home runs with 7, ahead of Gates Brown who hit .370 and slugged .685.

[Tomi]

Rube Waddell was born on Friday the 13th and died on April Fool's Day. Not a big deal but adds to the weirdness that he displayed.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by texmrsport

For the 1971 Phillies, pitcher Rick Wise was tied for 5th on the club with 6 home runs.

In 1965 Don Drysdale was by FAR the Dodgers best hitter with an .839 OPS. Second place was Jim Gilliam at only .758. He only finished 7th on the team in HR's with 7, but the team leader only had 12.

I always have a hard time deciding which Dodger team that won a World Series was the most offensively challenged, but I think this team takes it over 1988.