1966 Topps 6th Series/Semi-Hi's

[Cliff Bowman]

Bob Rodgers is under Bobby Richardson. A lot of these miscuts don't show the color band because the color band wasn't printed aligned with the black border lines. I found a Richardson with yellow above him but I have no doubt it's a red Ferrara with a color separation.

[Cliff Bowman]

This is what's holding up the whole layout, Steve Barber has an Indian/Phillie above him that I believe is Phil Linz but every time I get to that point Barber comes out under Lenny Green which can't be right. There is a flaw somewhere in our previous columns.

[deweyinthehall]

Thought I posted this a few days ago - but I think this is certainly Phil Linz over Barber because of the unique properties of the visible black border. This should give us a complete column of (in no particular order) Linz, Barber, Kline, Roznovsky, Coleman, Braves Rookies, Gibbon.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Bob Rodgers is under Bobby Richardson. A lot of these miscuts don't show the color band because the color band wasn't printed aligned with the black border lines. I found a Richardson with yellow above him but I have no doubt it's a red Ferrara with a color separation.

You can make out the gray color band in the Richardson I posted....

[Kevvyg1026]

I'm fairly certain that the column cards you posted can't be completely accurate because Linz is below a green banner card.

We have the pattern of Linz-Barber-Rovnovsky-Kline, and the other three you mentioned are in the order of: Gibbon-Braves RS-Coleman. That would force Coleman (Blue banner) to be above Linz, which doesn't seem to match this miscut.

I think it is possible, albeit NOT confirmed, that the pattern of Face-Bailey-McDaniel is above Linz.

1966_522_WF-SF.jpg

[bb66]

Amazing work Kevin,Cliff, and dewey!!!!!!!!!!

[Cliff Bowman]

I found this miscut Dennis Bennett in eBay's sold items, it looks like the red of a Dodger/Yankee but there aren't any of those really available. It would make sense if it is orange and it is Hoyt Wilhelm above him.

[deweyinthehall]

My first guess would be a White Sox/Cub, but like you say it could also be Dodger/Yankee.

Notice the reverse miscut...not a sliver of the salmon color, yet the full right edge of the black border and, I think, clear specks of white indicating we're seeing the full thickness and it is one of the thinner borders.

I went through all available (to my counting) Dodgers/Yankees AND White Sox Cubs, and could find no card that had the offset of the salmon from the black to this degree, to include Wilhelm which shows a slight offset. Then I went through ALL the Yankees/Dodgers and Cubs/White Sox just for kicks - it could only be two. The first is Don Buford, but he is safely ensconced elsewhere. The other is Steve Hamilton, but I don't think there is any way any of us think we could have messed up the right edge so badly.

What if we expanded a bit - is there any chance the card above Bennett could be, like Bennett, a pink Red Sox or Pirate? Because Bob Bailey would fit that reverse miscut perfectly, IMHO. With the color issues observed on a couple of those Aaron's I posted a couple weeks ago, can it be out of the question?

[Kevvyg1026]

I sincerely hope that it is a color shift, and that Bennett is below Wilhelm (which is where I tentatively placed him). Otherwise, I have to blow up everything about this layout and start again from scratch. LOL

[deweyinthehall]

That would be perfect - but all the copies of Wilhelm I have seen don't have what seems to be this great an offset between salmon and black.

[Kevvyg1026]

Bailey has a pirate or red sox above him, so I don't think it's Bailey.

If the yellow is shifted upward, that violet or pink color eould be observed, so i think it's Wilhelm. And i have seen examples, not only of Wilhelm, but other cub or white sox, with such a shift, and the the violet/pink is evident.

[Cliff Bowman]

If not for the Indian/Phillie being above Steve Barber we would be down to a few 3x cards, Bearnarth, Cardenal, and Pirates Rookie Stars. I wish I didn’t find that Barber miscut .

[Kevvyg1026]

Cliff - the sweetest fruit is not always the easiest to pick. lol

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Cliff - the sweetest fruit is not always the easiest to pick. lol

Just shake the tree and add sugar to whatever falls.
(Yes, I have no idea what purpose this statement serves.)

[Kevvyg1026]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I found this miscut Dennis Bennett in eBay's sold items, it looks like the red of a Dodger/Yankee but there aren't any of those really available. It would make sense if it is orange and it is Hoyt Wilhelm above him.

Here is a color shifted TJ. I realize it's not Wilhelm, but I think the same principle applies. The yellow is higher than normal and we see the pink/violet below.

1966_486_color_shift.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Larry Bearnarth is above George Banks. Banks is above Lenny Green. Now if we only knew who is above Bearnarth and under Green...

[Cliff Bowman]

I think I might have found who is above Larry Bearnarth but it isn't who I was expecting, Eddie Stanky. ETA it can't be Bobby Bragan because it is a regular player card under Stanky.

[Cliff Bowman]

These were already pretty much confirmed but I don't think we had good scans of them, Cubs Rookie Stars above Tony Gonzalez and Joe Moeller above Cubs Rookie Stars.

[deweyinthehall]

I may need to step away for a while and start from scratch. Is there any way the card under Woodeshick might NOT be a yellow? Perhaps a light green of the Orioles or Astros? When you blow the image up, the card underneath looks less obviously yellow.

Here's why I ask - this Klippstein clearly has a yellow underneath him, right?

I am far less along than Cliff or Kevvy because on the spreadsheet I keep I only use actual known miscuts - I haven't gotten to filling in gaps based upon card counts, etc.

When I looked again at the Klippstein (who I have in a column with Blefary, Wyatt, Cannizzaro, Belinsky and John) and tried to match it with another yellow not yet assigned to ANY partial column, my two choices were Woodeshick and McAuliffe. I knew it couldn't be Woodeshick because with a yellow beneath him there couldn't be 2 yellows in that completed column. So it HAD to be McAuliffe.

But one of the only horizontal miscuts we have is McAuliffe on the same row as Klippstein!

So again - could the card beneath Woodeshick be a light green? If so, Blefary would match and I can sleep tonight.

[deweyinthehall]

Dear God here's another - This image of Belinsky that we've had for some time shows him over a Brave or Angel right?

We have Belinsky in a 6 card column with Blefary, Wyatt, Klippstein, Cannizzaro and John.

The card below Belinsky shows white along the top edge, which eliminates Cannizzaro, doesn't it?

If so, we know Klippstein has a yellow beneath him.

So we now need to add an Angel/Brave AND a Cardinal/Tiger to a partial 6-card column. The math doesn't work.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I think I might have found who is above Larry Bearnarth but it isn't who I was expecting, Eddie Stanky. ETA it can't be Bobby Bragan because it is a regular player card under Stanky.

It is Bearnarth - the distinctive gap between the black border and the left upper corner of the color band is consistent with his cards.

[Cliff Bowman]

I'm glad you showed that miscut of Klippstein. I had forgotten about it so I looked at mine and I also have a scan of the back, it shows two lines of the stats that extend toward the left. I compared it to the back of a Tommy John and it's a perfect match. I think that confirms Tommy John under Johnny Klippstein. We have Klippstein in the 4x Gonzalez row so that means there has to be a 4x under Klippstein, which John is and John has a Twin/Red above him from the miscut. The row structure goes

4x Aaron
3x Moeller
3x Cubs Rookie Stars
4x Gonzalez
4x Nuxhall
3x Fox
3x Skinner

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Dear God here's another - This image of Belinsky that we've had for some time shows him over a Brave or Angel right?

We have Belinsky in a 6 card column with Blefary, Wyatt, Klippstein, Cannizzaro and John.

The card below Belinsky shows white along the top edge, which eliminates Cannizzaro, doesn't it?

If so, we know Klippstein has a yellow beneath him.

So we now need to add an Angel/Brave AND a Cardinal/Tiger to a partial 6-card column. The math doesn't work.

You scared me for a second, Cannizzaro is ABOVE Belinsky, Belinsky is above Wyatt.

[Cliff Bowman]

I tentatively have Hal Woodeshick above Dick McAuliffe for a few reasons, it appears to be a yellow card under Woodeshick, the card above McAuliffe needs to be a 3x which Woodeshick is, and that space is currently open. With Stanky being at the top of a column above Bearnarth-G Banks-L Green that means there are mistakes in the other columns so nothing is set.

[Cliff Bowman]

I figured out the flaw and have completed the 77 card layout. Joe Gibbon of the Giants is the card under Dick McAuliffe and not a Twin/Red, it is most likely a color shift on the Gibbon showing the blue or less likely it's sun faded. I will send dewey the info and hopefully he can whip up a virtual sheet before too long .

[deweyinthehall]

OK - I will get to it in a couple weeks probably - I think I still owe you a 1958 series.

I am going to double check the 1966 layout against all the images I have stored away - sort of a "from scratch" thing - as I work on it. It just sort of feels like we've reached a conclusion pretty quickly for such an impossible series.

[bb66]

You all are truly amazing to figure this series out!

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by bb66

You all are truly amazing to figure this series out!

I thought 1966 6th Series would be impossible but 1965 6th Series is going to be impossibler .

[Elberson]

Awesome job guys

[Kevvyg1026]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

OK - I will get to it in a couple weeks probably - I think I still owe you a 1958 series.

I am going to double check the 1966 layout against all the images I have stored away - sort of a "from scratch" thing - as I work on it. It just sort of feels like we've reached a conclusion pretty quickly for such an impossible series.

There have been a few more miscuts that have shown up recently, but as far as "impossible,", I know the cliff and I have worked on this for over a year and a half.

[deweyinthehall]

After a lot of detective work by Cliff, Kevvy and myself, here is a possible layout for both 1966 6th series slits.

[Kevvyg1026]

Very nice, but I think Roznovsky & Podres have to be flipped. Also, as an aside, this is one of the few times where a checklist was on a 4x row. The editors at Topps must have been asleep with such strange series printing.

[bb66]

That looks fantastic. Thanks again for all the hard work. Sure helps the '66 collector.

[hornsz]

Hello

This is my first post.

Longtime collector who is discovering lots of great stuff on this site. This thread and the others surrounding the construction of the printing sheets is compelling to follow.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and your dedication to solving these puzzles.

I've long shied away from the 66 set because of the high numbers. It's a great looking set and I'm thinking of diving in. This thread is a large reason why.

I've also taken an interest in miscuts. Who would have thunk?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by hornsz

Hello

This is my first post.

Longtime collector who is discovering lots of great stuff on this site. This thread and the others surrounding the construction of the printing sheets is compelling to follow.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and your dedication to solving these puzzles.

I've long shied away from the 66 set because of the high numbers. It's a great looking set and I'm thinking of diving in. This thread is a large reason why.

I've also taken an interest in miscuts. Who would have thunk?

Welcome to the board. If you happen to run across any 1965 6th Series miscuts and post them that would be awesome .

[Cliff Bowman]

Thanks to Dewey here are the two 1966 6th Series slits. The only thing that puzzles me is why #517 7th Series Checklist (White Sox Rookies variation) is not available in larger quantities since it was 4x. I guess kids trashed the checklists back then.

[Cliff Bowman]

Here is the second slit.