What was the salvation of the Prewar card hobby

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

But how? I'd imagine it was more in the larger populated cities. My family all grew up farming, and living in very modest ways. My Dad was born in 1937, and they had 8 people living in a 4 room house with no running water. He passed away in 1996, and I did ask him questions, and in no way was a baseball card something he would have been able to have had. He told me sticks, and rocks are what they used to play baseball. I'm just trying to imagine the amount of cards that still exist, and it's amazing to me.

The cards were stored in bags and put away in attics, Garages, and even barns. I started collecting at a 9 year old in 1973 and by the end of the decade my dad and I were putting ads in local papers offering to pay cash for cards. At that time people were shocked we would pay for the very things they were likely to throw out and eagerly allowed us to come to their home with cash for their cardboard. This was before the Beckett guides and you struck a deal with the seller based on nothing more than common sense. We bought unbelievable collections with unbelievable cards. We had nearly a complete run of Topps sets, both football and baseball from 1954 going forward just from these purchases. When we had doubles we would do the old fashioned thing and take them to the monthly collectors shows held at Holiday Inns, VFW halls and even school cafeterias and trade others for the cards were needed for our sets. Looking back, we didnt spend a great deal of money but back then the cards were only worth what someone was willing to pay for them. To be honest, those were some pretty awesome times to be a collector as you got to know so many other people and what they collected and we would help each other out with want lists.

I remember spending 50 dollars each on two 1933 Ruths. I spent the same on a '34 Gehrig and thinking I over paid. I have a vivid memory of a older gentleman who still had his collection from his childhood which was mainly a large cigar box filled with '33 and '34 Goudey's. As we were goin g through the cards I saw several beautiful hall of famers and even a pristine Lajoie that he remembered getting through the mail. The gentleman decided to put the cards in a safe deposit box and pass them on to his grandkids.

The cards were out there and they survived. They are still out there and are waiting to be found. Sadly, its all about the money and the grade the cards will fetch and not about the people depicted on the cards and it certainly isnt about the relationships that so many of us formed in the days before the internet and price guides.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by whitehse

The cards were stored in bags and put away in attics, Garages, and even barns. I started collecting at a 9 year old in 1973 and by the end of the decade my dad and I were putting ads in local papers offering to pay cash for cards. At that time people were shocked we would pay for the very things they were likely to throw out and eagerly allowed us to come to their home with cash for their cardboard. This was before the Beckett guides and you struck a deal with the seller based on nothing more than common sense. We bought unbelievable collections with unbelievable cards. We had nearly a complete run of Topps sets, both football and baseball from 1954 going forward just from these purchases. When we had doubles we would do the old fashioned thing and take them to the monthly collectors shows held at Holiday Inns, VFW halls and even school cafeterias and trade others for the cards were needed for our sets. Looking back, we didnt spend a great deal of money but back then the cards were only worth what someone was willing to pay for them. To be honest, those were some pretty awesome times to be a collector as you got to know so many other people and what they collected and we would help each other out with want lists.

I remember spending 50 dollars each on two 1933 Ruths. I spent the same on a '34 Gehrig and thinking I over paid. I have a vivid memory of a older gentleman who still had his collection from his childhood which was mainly a large cigar box filled with '33 and '34 Goudey's. As we were goin g through the cards I saw several beautiful hall of famers and even a pristine Lajoie that he remembered getting through the mail. The gentleman decided to put the cards in a safe deposit box and pass them on to his grandkids.

The cards were out there and they survived. They are still out there and are waiting to be found. Sadly, its all about the money and the grade the cards will fetch and not about the people depicted on the cards and it certainly isnt about the relationships that so many of us formed in the days before the internet and price guides.

I don't think this is universally true. I got into collecting vintage last year, and I've enjoyed reading about every player whose card I purchase. My main takeaway from Year 1: There sure were a lot of guys who died of TB in the 1890s-1920s.

I gotta think there are more people like myself who love the history behind the cardboard.

[Vintage Vern]

Is there any data of production run numbers of many of the older sets? Example the 1922 American Caramel E120 set of 240 cards. Did they keep track of how many sets they produced.

Does any information show a break down of what parts of the US were supplied more. Say New York, California, vs Kansas or Iowa. It had to be more regional I would imagine.

[akleinb611]

It's not as though vintage cards were considered worthless junk right up to the creation of the internet. The "worthless junk" perception era ended by the late Sixties, and cards of all sorts were barreling up in price by the late Seventies, The end of the Topps monopoly in 1981 supercharged everyone's awareness of the hobby, and that's where the prices began to rise. If you're asking about the mechanisms of collecting before the internet, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Sports Collectors Digest, which absolutely dominated the hobby from the late Seventies to the mid-Nineties. Every week saw a huge publication, hundreds of pages long, featuring auctions and sales of all sorts of material, much of it vintage. Smaller collectors could place ads in the classified section for very little cost. SCD was absolutely the center of the hobby for about 20 years, even more so than ebay is today.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by akleinb611

It's not as though vintage cards were considered worthless junk right up to the creation of the internet. The "worthless junk" perception era ended by the late Sixties, and cards of all sorts were barreling up in price by the late Seventies, The end of the Topps monopoly in 1981 supercharged everyone's awareness of the hobby, and that's where the prices began to rise. If you're asking about the mechanisms of collecting before the internet, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Sports Collectors Digest, which absolutely dominated the hobby from the late Seventies to the mid-Nineties. Every week saw a huge publication, hundreds of pages long, featuring auctions and sales of all sorts of material, much of it vintage. Smaller collectors could place ads in the classified section for very little cost. SCD was absolutely the center of the hobby for about 20 years, even more so than ebay is today.

I'm actually more curious about the late 1800s to 1950s on how so many where saved before they had value or means to trade. How did people amass so many, and keep them in such good condition. Was there even a thing like collecting or a hobby in those time periods? I just think about USA history, and what took place in those time periods, and how people lived. I just find it amazing so many made it. I know 1939 is the cut off for prewar, but just wanted to expand to the 50s to include WWII, and many that held those prewar cards.

[akleinb611]

Sorry if I misunderstood your question. My guess is that most surviving T cards were pasted into scrapbooks, with a simple flour and water paste. Scrapbooking used to be much more of a thing than it is today. These have been soaked out of the scrapbooks, with such a simple glue leaving little or no residue.

What's important to understand is that the major T card sets, T201 through T207, were produced in astounding quantities, comparable perhaps to the overproduced Topps baseball sets of the late 1980's. Even to this day, T206 cards in a general sense are not rare, considering the fact that they're over a century old. It's possible less than 1% have survived. That should give you an idea of how great the number of cards was originally. It's pointless to try to get to specifics, because even if you could pinpoint the precise numbers of T cards, Goudeys and PlayBalls originally issued, the survival percentages are pure guesswork. Given the huge numbers originally produced, the difference between a 1% survival rate and a 2% survival rate would be gigantic.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

I'm actually more curious about the late 1800s to 1950s on how so many where saved before they had value or means to trade. How did people amass so many, and keep them in such good condition. Was there even a thing like collecting or a hobby in those time periods? I just think about USA history, and what took place in those time periods, and how people lived. I just find it amazing so many made it. I know 1939 is the cut off for prewar, but just wanted to expand to the 50s to include WWII, and many that held those prewar cards.

I think people can’t really comprehend true collecting with the haze of money they see cards through today. Burdick didn’t care for value he cared about collecting. This has always been the case with human nature with American Indians trading for colored beads and the prevalence of scrapbooks. People collect to collect, I have so many near worthless collections I just love for memories and the hunt. It is the recollection of me and childhood. There are so many stories of barkeeps sweeping the floors of cigarette cards discarded and just as many of children coming in the pick them off the floor. As they aged they were just as wistful as us in wanting to remember childhood. They were buying memories, not value. And they kept them

[bigfanNY]

I think you need to give PSA some credit for "salvaging" the hobby. Buying cards in some ways became
"safer"with PSA many who would not buy cards before became interested after grading took hold. And the end result was increased demand for cards. Would there have always been collectors of cards Baseball, Other Sports, non sports...Yes! But not at current levels.
JMHO

Jonathan

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I think people can’t really comprehend true collecting with the haze of money they see cards through today. Burdick didn’t care for value he cared about collecting.... People collect to collect, I have so many near worthless collections I just love for memories and the hunt. It is the recollection of me and childhood.... As they aged they were just as wistful as us in wanting to remember childhood. They were buying memories, not value. And they kept them.

Well said. I agree.

[Snapolit1]

American Indians traded beads as essentially a form of currency.

Originally Posted by JustinD

I think people can’t really comprehend true collecting with the haze of money they see cards through today. Burdick didn’t care for value he cared about collecting. This has always been the case with human nature with American Indians trading for colored beads and the prevalence of scrapbooks. People collect to collect, I have so many near worthless collections I just love for memories and the hunt. It is the recollection of me and childhood. There are so many stories of barkeeps sweeping the floors of cigarette cards discarded and just as many of children coming in the pick them off the floor. As they aged they were just as wistful as us in wanting to remember childhood. They were buying memories, not value. And they kept them

[Snapolit1]

The pull of nostalgia is always, to me, amusing. Long ago and far away . . . everything was great . . . .and people did things for all the right reasons . . . . everyone was kind and benevolent . . . and nobody did the sort of stuff they do today . . . all the players loved the game . . .hell they would have been happy to play for free ....

There are stories in the Bible of people selling what could considered "collectibles" to other people. Go to your local history museum and learn about ancient Egypt and Greece . . . people made stuff and people collected stuff. . . . and people paid "big sheckles" for people to make them cool stuff.

And some guy in 1300 BC was saying "you are going to pay WHAT for that gold vase?? Are you nuts????"

[ALBB]

Originally Posted by akleinb611

It's not as though vintage cards were considered worthless junk right up to the creation of the internet. The "worthless junk" perception era ended by the late Sixties, and cards of all sorts were barreling up in price by the late Seventies, The end of the Topps monopoly in 1981 supercharged everyone's awareness of the hobby, and that's where the prices began to rise. If you're asking about the mechanisms of collecting before the internet, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Sports Collectors Digest, which absolutely dominated the hobby from the late Seventies to the mid-Nineties. Every week saw a huge publication, hundreds of pages long, featuring auctions and sales of all sorts of material, much of it vintage. Smaller collectors could place ads in the classified section for very little cost. SCD was absolutely the center of the hobby for about 20 years, even more so than ebay is today.

Oh wow yes... that SCD..loved it..from the " big guys" full page ads, the show calendar..which we used to " plan our weekend "...and tons of classified ads .made loads of buys/ connections thru that also

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

I don't think this is universally true. I got into collecting vintage last year, and I've enjoyed reading about every player whose card I purchase. My main takeaway from Year 1: There sure were a lot of guys who died of TB in the 1890s-1920s.

I gotta think there are more people like myself who love the history behind the cardboard.

You are probably right as my take was a raw generalization and a yearning for the days when this was a true hobby for nearly everyone involved and trading was more common than a cash transaction.