More interest in raw cards in 2024 - Observations

[raulus]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Wow! Is that to keep you motivated on the treadmill?

“Strange…those beautiful Mays cards don’t seem to be getting any closer. Maybe if I walk faster…”

Not quite the same, but I do find that I need something to distract me from the monotony of the treadmill. Between the cardboard and a 75 in big screen, I can usually stay distracted.

[Fred]

There's price comps for slabbed cards so what is the price structure for raw cards? It's understood, one persons Ex-Mt is someone else's NRMT and one persons VG is another's F-G. Using common sense and assuming a card would grade a 6, what is the price difference between a 52T Mantle raw (in Ex-Mt) shape compared to a graded 6 card? Probably a stupid question because anybody with an Ex-Mt Mantle wouldn't leave money on the table and sell it raw. Ok, how about a 1960 Topps Frank Robinson graded vs slabbed (assume Ex-Mt condition)?

I wouldn't mind buying raw cards but I hate it when dealers say "it would grade a 5" and then quote a price for a PSA5 slabbed card. And I'm guessing I'm not the only person annoyed at dealers like that.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fred

There's price comps for slabbed cards so what is the price structure for raw cards? It's understood, one persons Ex-Mt is someone else's NRMT and one persons VG is another's F-G. Using common sense and assuming a card would grade a 6, what is the price difference between a 52T Mantle raw (in Ex-Mt) shape compared to a graded 6 card? Probably a stupid question because anybody with an Ex-Mt Mantle wouldn't leave money on the table and sell it raw. Ok, how about a 1960 Topps Frank Robinson graded vs slabbed (assume Ex-Mt condition)?

I wouldn't mind buying raw cards but I hate it when dealers say "it would grade a 5" and then quote a price for a PSA5 slabbed card. And I'm guessing I'm not the only person annoyed at dealers like that.

Who cares what the dealer of raw cards says... simply move on if you disagree with his assessment. Just use your own judgment on raw cards. That's the beauty of collecting, and it's not even difficult. You don't need some random overworked minimum wage stranger judging your cards.

And as far as comps go, what are you even comparing? Yesterday's 7 is today's 5. In addition to today's stricter grading standards, there is no consistency from grader to grader, rendering the comps meaningless.

[campyfan39]

As a raw collector, this is what aggravates me the most. Many dealers now try to sell their really nice conditioned raw ones for graded comps or more.
That has forced me to buy graded and bust them out.
Chris

Originally Posted by Fred

There's price comps for slabbed cards so what is the price structure for raw cards? It's understood, one persons Ex-Mt is someone else's NRMT and one persons VG is another's F-G. Using common sense and assuming a card would grade a 6, what is the price difference between a 52T Mantle raw (in Ex-Mt) shape compared to a graded 6 card? Probably a stupid question because anybody with an Ex-Mt Mantle wouldn't leave money on the table and sell it raw. Ok, how about a 1960 Topps Frank Robinson graded vs slabbed (assume Ex-Mt condition)?

I wouldn't mind buying raw cards but I hate it when dealers say "it would grade a 5" and then quote a price for a PSA5 slabbed card. And I'm guessing I'm not the only person annoyed at dealers like that.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Fred

Ok, how about a 1960 Topps Frank Robinson graded vs slabbed (assume Ex-Mt condition)?

I wouldn't mind buying raw cards but I hate it when dealers say "it would grade a 5" and then quote a price for a PSA5 slabbed card. And I'm guessing I'm not the only person annoyed at dealers like that.

Originally Posted by campyfan39

As a raw collector, this is what aggravates me the most. Many dealers now try to sell their really nice conditioned raw ones for graded comps or more.

I just sneer at dealers who price their raw cards at those of "equivalent" slabbed cards and spend my money elsewhere. One of the reasons why I've stayed with collecting raw cards is that I'm not willing to pay the premium slabbed cards fetch.

[Fred]

I'm still trying to figure out what board members believe is a fair discount rate for ungraded cards (when compared to a comparable slabbed card). If a graded card value comp is $500, then what's a board member willing to pay for a card that appears to be in that condition (but not slabbed)?

What do you say when a dealer says "that's what a graded card would go for"?

My response is (nicely), then perhaps you should get it graded and sell it at that price. To which some dealers cop an attitude and others figure it's time to negotiate.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Fred

What do you say when a dealer says "that's what a graded card would go for"?

"Well I'm not willing to pay the premium for graded cards. I buy only lower priced raw cards."

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm still trying to figure out what board members believe is a fair discount rate for ungraded cards (when compared to a comparable slabbed card). If a graded card value comp is $500, then what's a board member willing to pay for a card that appears to be in that condition (but not slabbed)?

That depends on the card. As an example, for a '76 George Brett in "Mint" condition, the difference in price between raw and PSA 9 can be significant. For others, like a Fair/Good T206 common, not so much.

What do you say when a dealer says "that's what a graded card would go for"?

I'd say, "perhaps you should get it graded and sell it at..." Oh, wait. Yep, you nailed it.

My response is (nicely), then perhaps you should get it graded and sell it at that price. To which some dealers cop an attitude and others figure it's time to negotiate.

.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm still trying to figure out what board members believe is a fair discount rate for ungraded cards (when compared to a comparable slabbed card). If a graded card value comp is $500, then what's a board member willing to pay for a card that appears to be in that condition (but not slabbed)?

What do you say when a dealer says "that's what a graded card would go for"?

My response is (nicely), then perhaps you should get it graded and sell it at that price. To which some dealers cop an attitude and others figure it's time to negotiate.

There is no standard discounted amount that raw cards sell for in comparison to graded cards. They're worth just as much outside the slab as they are inside. The amount a buyer is willing to pay is more a function of how confident they are in their ability to predict what it would grade if submitted. If I'm looking at a card that I am very confident will grade a 6, then I'll pay full comps of a 6 to acquire that card. Especially if it's difficult to find otherwise. But that's based on my assessment of the card, not someone else's. If the seller says it's NM-MT and wants PSA 8 pricing for it, then I'm not a buyer obviously. But it works the other way too. If the seller lists it as VGEX but I'm confident it'll grade as a 5, then again, I'll bid as if it's in a 5 holder already. But I'm extremely confident in my ability to grade cards accurately. If you're not confident in your ability to grade cards then you shouldn't be buying them raw to begin with.

[gst6]

I have no strong preference. I think in theory the concern for fakes is higher once you get into pre-WWII cards given their simplicity, so I understand "authenticating," but at the same time, it's not like I'm buying $100K cards here. No one is forging a torn-to-shreds Orval Overall.

I think people get obsessed with the grade, too, and there's probably a market inefficiency there. Compare a random N172 graded a 1 vs one that's graded a 4, and I feel like fairly often the 1 looks as good or better, but a lot of people are just bidding just based on a grade.

Auction houses I think are pretty much exclusively graded cards now, so this probably skews what I've added recently, but I'm not in a rush to grade anything I have that's raw.

I will say... I don't understand grading modern cards at all. It's got to be, what, 90%+ 8s or 9s? And magically all the hyped 1/1s get 10s. To me, card grading is mostly card authenticity, and that's just not needed for something like the Skenes debut patch.

[PhillyFan1883]

I miss the days of raw cards being the majority at shows to be honest. I enjoy going through stacks of raw at the old time dealers still to this day bulding out my sets.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by gst6

I will say... I don't understand grading modern cards at all. It's got to be, what, 90%+ 8s or 9s? And magically all the hyped 1/1s get 10s. To me, card grading is mostly card authenticity, and that's just not needed for something like the Skenes debut patch.

Grading with modern is really just a mechanism for culling back the insane print runs into 10s and not 10s.