Is CC Sabathia a Hall of Famer?

[GeoPoto]

Maybe the voter believes that, particularly with the advent of public shaming resulting in a trend toward a "bigger" hall, that unanimous should be reserved as a way to honor the top one tenth of one percent. And he doesn't think Ichiro's career warrants that distinction. Nobody else has to agree with him. It's his opinion and he is entitled to it. He doesn't have to believe that Ichiro doesn't belong in the hall. He only has to trust that Ichiro will make it without his vote.

[D. Bergin]

I don't normally subscribe to old school ways of interpreting the sport of baseball...but if Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron didn't get 100% of the vote...I'm not sure why I should care that Ichiro didn't get 100% of the vote.

Hell, Mantle was 43 votes short of a unanimous selection.

Rickey Henderson, who was worth almost 2 Ichiro's, via the WAR statistic, was left off of 28 ballots.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I don't normally subscribe to old school ways of interpreting the sport of baseball...but if Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron didn't get 100% of the vote...I'm not sure why I should care that Ichiro didn't get 100% of the vote.

Hell, Mantle was 43 votes short of a unanimous selection.

Rickey Henderson, who was worth almost 2 Ichiro's, via the WAR statistic, was left off of 28 ballots.

Wow, completely agree with every word of this.

[jayshum]

I still am amazed that Mariano Rivera was unanimous considering the general disdain for closers/relief pitchers getting into the Hall of Fame. Sure he's probably the best closer ever, but it's still hard to believe he got 100%.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I still am amazed that Mariano Rivera was unanimous considering the general disdain for closers/relief pitchers getting into the Hall of Fame. Sure he's probably the best closer ever, but it's still hard to believe he got 100%.

Same...and I'm a huge Yanks and Mariano fan.

Figured at least a couple writers would have held out based on the Closer/Reliever argument.

I am certainly not in favor of forcing writers to publicly reveal their votes. Not with the Troll culture we have today.

Vote for so and so or death threats will immediately ensue, while Stephen A. Smith and Chris Russo and Skip Bayless and Pat McAfee and whoever the hell else, publicly eviscerates you to their Millions+ brainless audiences.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Same...and I'm a huge Yanks and Mariano fan.

Figured at least a couple writers would have held out based on the Closer/Reliever argument.

I am certainly not in favor of forcing writers to publicly reveal their votes. Not with the Troll culture we have today.

Vote for so and so or death threats will immediately ensue, while Stephen A. Smith and Chris Russo and Skip Bayless and Pat McAfee and whoever the hell else, publicly eviscerates you to their Millions+ brainless audiences.

The 100% thing only became a thing when it became a thing with Mariano. I agree that it surprises me that he was the one to finally break through the "tradition" that nobody can get 100%.

Once he did, though, it's interesting that a number of very popular players both came one vote short. I wonder if the same happens to guys like Pujols, Cabrera, or other "no doubt" guys on the horizon. If Rivera is destined to be the only one with a perfect vote, that's just....odd.

Personally, I disagree on public ballots. Getting a vote is a great honor that should be taken seriously. I feel many who have the vote don't take it as seriously as they should. If you're not willing to publicly defend your choices against a few internet trolls, decline your ballot. If everyone had to defend their vote, I think we'd see a lot less shenanigans.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Personally, I disagree on public ballots. Getting a vote is a great honor that should be taken seriously. I feel many who have the vote don't take it as seriously as they should. If you're not willing to publicly defend your choices against a few internet trolls, decline your ballot. If everyone had to defend their vote, I think we'd see a lot less shenanigans.

People get death threats and get their homes Swatted on a regular basis, for a lot less then: "You didn't vote for my favorite player", or better yet..."the guy I bet on to get a certain % of the ballots, didn't get that %".

Somebody making 40K or less a year to be a sportswriter (and a lot of them make a lot less then that nowadays), shouldn't have themselves and their families subjected to that, just because it's a honor just to be asked.

Certainly not because Stephen A. Smith wants to dole out his pound of flesh on National Television...not because he's personally outraged...but because it creates an angry and engaged audience that keeps him relevant and makes him and his employer shitloads of money in the process.

If the HOF thinks somebody is abusing their position as a voting member, just don't invite them back the next year...but it's not the end of the world because anybody does or doesn't get 100% of the votes.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I don't normally subscribe to old school ways of interpreting the sport of baseball...but if Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron didn't get 100% of the vote...I'm not sure why I should care that Ichiro didn't get 100% of the vote.

Hell, Mantle was 43 votes short of a unanimous selection.

Rickey Henderson, who was worth almost 2 Ichiro's, via the WAR statistic, was left off of 28 ballots.

Agree 100%. I will add Lou Gehrig and Roberto Clemente. if they can't get 100% when they are the only one on the ballot and no doubt Hall of Famers, then Ichiro, maybe the 10th best RF, and Jeter, maybe the 10th best SS, getting within 1 vote of 100% is remarkable.

I can see Mariano getting 100%. He is no doubt the best relief pitcher ever. Unless for some reason you don't think relievers belong in the HOF, how could you not vote for him? If Ichiro and Jeter only had only 1 hold out, then Albert Pujols has to be unanimous, doesn't he? Going forward, maybe Ohtani, depending on how his career finishes. But saying some random player should have been 100% just because he belongs in the HOF makes no sense.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Rickey Henderson, who was worth almost 2 Ichiro's, via the WAR statistic, was left off of 28 ballots.

And it took Joe Dimaggio three tries to get elected. Doesn't make it any less dumb.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Rickey Henderson, who was worth almost 2 Ichiro's, via the WAR statistic, was left off of 28 ballots.

And it took Joe Dimaggio three tries to get elected. Doesn't make it any less dumb.

[Mike D.]

Put me on team "just because the past was dumb, doesn't mean the future has to be".

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Tabe

And it took Joe Dimaggio three tries to get elected. Doesn't make it any less dumb.

True, but it looks like Hall of Fame voting was a little different back in DiMaggio's time. He retired in 1951 and appeared on the ballot in 1953. There were 83 people on the ballot that year, and eventually 42 of them became Hall of Famers. In 1954, there were only 53 on the ballot, and eventually 33 of them became Hall of Famers. When he was finally elected in 1955, there were 65 on the ballot with 35 eventual Hall of Famers. With that many people on the ballot and that many eventual Hall of Famers, it's not surprising that getting elected on your first ballot would be harder and being unanimous would be almost impossible.

[D. Bergin]

Either you're in the Hall of Fame, or you're not. There's no magical tiers assigned based on your vote percentage.