When Did the Last Surviving T206 Subject Pass Away?

[Kidnapped18]

Just updated my list

Thanks!

Originally Posted by T206Collector

John Kenney ("Jack") Bastian
Birth: May 10, 1883
Newburgh, NY
Death: June 14, 1959
Newburgh, NY

Harry Sentz
Birth: January 31, 1883
Baltimore, MD
Death: January 8, 1932
Baltimore, MD

James Arthur Westlake
Birth: November 1, 1874
New Jersey
Death: August 31, 1935
Essex, NJ

[Kidnapped18]

Any info on Juan Viola? I have his birth year as 1883 in Havana but no date

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

Any info on Juan Viola? I have his birth year as 1883 in Havana but no date

There are some boat travel manifests I was able to find regarding Viola, but nothing that provides any documentation beyond year of birth.

[piecesofthegame]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Back to Tyler for those interested, the family consists of just 8 generations in America (based on the living grandson) going back to Henry Tyler who was born about 1607 possibly in London, England and who immigrated to America and subsequently acquired the “Middle Plantation” in Virginia, that eventually became Williamsburg. So the family has been in America around 400 years and have had just 8 generations! Crazy! All of the men were having children with one leg already in the coffin!

While this is interesting ,it’s probably not as unusual as you think. I have traced my genealogy back about 10 generations to the first immigrant who came over about 10-15 years after the Mayflower (1620). This original immigrant with the Brigham surname settled around Marlboro Massachusetts and I can trace all 10 generations IN THE SAME TOWN back to the mid 1600s!

And a friend of mine with the surname Alden is a direct descendant of the John Alden who was on the Mayflower. He has a couple relics like primitive silverware and cookware that have been passed down through family as relics from the Mayflower.

[alaskapaul3]

Further deviation fun fact: there is still a living member of The Glenn Miller Orchestra 80 years after they broke up named Ray Anthony who is about to turn 103. He later went on to record the Hokey Pokey that we all danced to as kids.

[spec]

Years ago, when I was living in Boston and doing research on the New England League, I had no luck determining Phil Poland's birth or death dates. He was from Maine, but I never found the family in any census there. His mother, Susie, died Oct. 4, 1934, in Lynn, Mass. She was the widow of Levi, who might have been Phil's father. Phil visited Susie in Lynn in May 1928. Perhaps, some of this might help one of you track him down.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by spec

Years ago, when I was living in Boston and doing research on the New England League, I had no luck determining Phil Poland's birth or death dates. He was from Maine, but I never found the family in any census there. His mother, Susie, died Oct. 4, 1934, in Lynn, Mass. She was the widow of Levi, who might have been Phil's father. Phil visited Susie in Lynn in May 1928. Perhaps, some of this might help one of you track him down.

I found Susie and Levi. But no indication of a son together. Does seem like perhaps Susie had a son not named Phil from an earlier marriage, and then married Levi Poland, so perhaps there is something there — but nothing saying the boy changed his name to Phil Poland after his mom remarried.

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

While this is interesting ,it’s probably not as unusual as you think. I have traced my genealogy back about 10 generations to the first immigrant who came over about 10-15 years after the Mayflower (1620). This original immigrant with the Brigham surname settled around Marlboro Massachusetts and I can trace all 10 generations IN THE SAME TOWN back to the mid 1600s!

And a friend of mine with the surname Alden is a direct descendant of the John Alden who was on the Mayflower. He has a couple relics like primitive silverware and cookware that have been passed down through family as relics from the Mayflower.

Thanks. Neat stuff!!!

I have done genealogy for the past 25 years or so. Lots of work, but the skills I learned come in handy from time to time!

[spec]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I found Susie and Levi. But no indication of a son together. Does seem like perhaps Susie had a son not named Phil from an earlier marriage, and then married Levi Poland, so perhaps there is something there — but nothing saying the boy changed his name to Phil Poland after his mom remarried.

Thanks, Paul,
So, it's likely Phil Poland was born with a different last name and probably a different first name, too, then used the name Phil Poland during his baseball career. Perhaps a record of Susie's marriage to Levi would give her prior name.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by spec

Thanks, Paul,
So, it's likely Phil Poland was born with a different last name and probably a different first name, too, then used the name Phil Poland during his baseball career. Perhaps a record of Susie's marriage to Levi would give her prior name.

Here are three screenshots - if your theory is correct then Phil Poland is really John A Hackett. However, Poland played for Providence in 1905, and that seems somewhat unlikely for a 16-year old, if he was born on April 23, 1889 (as indicated on his WW1 Draft Reg card), though Dick Rudolph was 16 when he started playing for Providence in 1904, so it is possible I suppose. I guess my question is why do we think Phil Poland met with his mother Susie Poland in May 1928? What’s the evidence?

[piecesofthegame]

I find all these obscure facts about obscure players very I interesting. I think someone (not me) needs to write a book about “The 25 Most Obscure Players From T206 and What Happened to Them After Baseball”. Who’s gonna write it?

[pclpads]

More to the point, who's going to read it?

[spec]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Here are three screenshots - if your theory is correct then Phil Poland is really John A Hackett. However, Poland played for Providence in 1905, and that seems somewhat unlikely for a 16-year old, if he was born on April 23, 1889 (as indicated on his WW1 Draft Reg card), though Dick Rudolph was 16 when he started playing for Providence in 1904, so it is possible I suppose. I guess my question is why do we think Phil Poland met with his mother Susie Poland in May 1928? What’s the evidence?

Paul,
When I was researching the New England League, I read the Lynn papers every day. On May 28, 1928, one of them (likely the Item) reported that Phil Poland, the old ballplayer, was in town visiting his mother, Susie.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

I find all these obscure facts about obscure players very I interesting. I think someone (not me) needs to write a book about “The 25 Most Obscure Players From T206 and What Happened to Them After Baseball”. Who’s gonna write it?

I've spent most of my life compiling a manuscript of what happened to every MLB player from 1876-2000, in addition to keeping track of causes of death. I have info for over 97% of all players from those 125 seasons. I have to agree with the poster right after you who replied, "Who's going to read it?". Obviously, it would have an audience, but is it worth my time to publish? Thus far, I've found it's been more beneficial to me to keep the info and use it for my own gain. Definitely more selfish than altruistic. There are other reasons to keep a lot of this info to myself, though. There's the chance that anyone still living may take (legal) issue with the publication of information that's not found in publicly accessible areas, let alone any little typo or incorrect fact that may have slipped through the cracks. Imagine having to cite sources for every bit of information gleaned for thousands of players? Thankfully, I've kept all of those citations, but what an absolute nightmare it would be to deal with. And for what, next to no money?

[piecesofthegame]

Just to clarify what I meant in saying someone should write a book..
I’m reminded of a book I read shortly after it came out out in 2020-“The Wax Pack: On the Open Road in Search of Baseball’s Afterlife”. The concept was interesting to me. The author cracked open a pack of cards, I can’t remember off-hand,might’ve been like 89 Topps or something. Then he wrote a chapter about researching the life of each random player in the pack. Some were borderline stars,some were journeymen. It was a great read, and got to #7 on the LA Times best seller list, also named one of the best books of 2020 by NPR. Not saying a t206 book would do as well by any means. But there is so much publicity around this set, even casual collectors know some about it. And we all know about the Cobbs and Mathewsons. But not everyone knows about Bugs Raymond, or Dan McGann. Not saying everyone’s story is fascinating, but I know some are. And a good author could bring that to life. NO DOUBT it would be a labor of love. But I guarantee many of the thousands of T206 collectors on this board would read it. I simply disagree no one would read it. It would be unlike any Deadball era book written. I’m talking myself into writing it when I retire!

[T206Collector]

If people are interested in writing bios of T206 players, which I fully support of course, there are plenty of un-researched players on SABR. I am pretty sure SABR would love the help!

A good example is T206 player bull Durham, who has been thoroughly researched here:

https://sabr.org/journal/article/in-...f-bull-durham/

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

But not everyone knows about Bugs Raymond, or Dan McGann. Not saying everyone’s story is fascinating, but I know some are. And a good author could bring that to life. NO DOUBT it would be a labor of love. But I guarantee many of the thousands of T206 collectors on this board would read it. I simply disagree no one would read it. It would be unlike any Deadball era book written.

I would note that Dan McGann and Bugs Raymond have well-researched chapters in Deadball Stars of the National League, which is available on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Deadball-Star.../dp/1574888609

(You can also read similar versions of McGann and Raymond’s bios on SABR).

[parkerj33]

Its not quite connected, but i still have to add the amazing tale of John seymour who in 1956 was on a tv game show discussing how he witnessed lincoln's assassination at Ford's theatre.

https://x.com/HistoryInPics/status/1853147423700566452

[Kidnapped18]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4CCFObSEAU

Originally Posted by parkerj33

Its not quite connected, but i still have to add the amazing tale of John seymour who in 1956 was on a tv game show discussing how he witnessed lincoln's assassination at Ford's theatre.

https://x.com/HistoryInPics/status/1853147423700566452

[murraydrew115]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

I find all these obscure facts about obscure players very I interesting. I think someone (not me) needs to write a book about “The 25 Most Obscure Players From T206 and What Happened to Them After Baseball”. Who’s gonna write it?

Same to me i need someone who can write about T205.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by murraydrew115

Same to me i need someone who can write about T205.

Not same to me as someone can only ban who need T205 write about.

Brian

[tjisonline]

So this 1983 article while preparing to record my latest YouTube video.
No better place than the post here.

I am copying and pasting from a photograph of the magazine using an iPhone . Excuse any formatting issues.
========

T- 206 "REST in PEACE"
BY BILL HABER
Fall 1983 issue of “baseball card - hobby report”.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Bill Haber can be reached at 1518
East 29th Street, Brooklyn, New York 11234, and would like to hear from anyone with information regarding the whereabouts or deaths of any obscure former Major League player.

IN JUNE 1, 1980, when Rube Marquard died, he represented the last survivor of the 358 major leaguers featured in T-206. That is, with an asterisk. There remained one obstacle to be overcome until all those players could be accounted for. That one obstacle was Louis "Bull" Durham, major league pitcher from 1904 through 1909 who was featured in T-206 as a member of the New York (National) Giants.

As of 1969, there were ten players featured in T-206 who were listed among the "missing". With the help of the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR) based in Cooperstown, New York, nine of those ten players were found, or, to be specific, their unreported deaths were located. Through painstaking efforts on the part of SABR members, Rube Geyer, Heinie Batch, Jerry Freeman, Bill Graham, Jack McAleese, Pat Paige, Lee Quillen, Ike Rockenfield and John White were ultimately found. Bull Durham remained the last mystery to be solved among this elite group honored by depiction in this tobacco series.

The Encyclopedia of Baseball states that Louis G. "Bull" Durham was born in Bolivar, New York in 1881 and was a brother of James Garfield "Jim-my" Durham, a pitcher-outfielder with the Chicago White Sox in 1902. Both facts ultimately proved incorrect. In reading newspaper accounts of the travels of Bull Durham during his baseball career, one would learn that he was married about 1907 and that he spent the winter of 1906-07 studying law in Geneva, Ohio. A marriage record could not be found, nor could any such learning institution located in or near Geneva, Ohio be located. Bull Durham enjoyed a long and extensive minor league career, and much was written about him between 1904 and 1913, but nothing of any substance could be learned about him until October of 1982.

At that time, Ray Nemec of Naperville, II-linois located a note in a 1906 Pennsylvania newspaper indicating that Bull Durham's correct name at birth was Charles Staub. This reference was reported to Al Kermisch of Alexandria, Virginia with whom the name Staub rung a bell. Al checked his extensive files of minor leaguers and found that our man's correct name was actually Louis Staub, a righthanded pitcher he had traced through the 1900-02 seasons. Staub was last shown in the records of Al Kermisch to have been pitching at McSherrystown, Pennsylvania in
August of 1902, so Al made an additional effort to turn up a note or two about him.

It was in early January of 1983 when Al turned up the note which proved most significant. A newspaper item had indicated that Staub was born in New Oxford, Pennsylvania in 1879. Upon learning this, a check was made of the current New Oxford telephone directory, only to find nearly one column of Staubs. A call was placed to three such numbers, strictly at random. The third of the three was able to refer the caller to a woman in York, Pennsylvania who has compiled a genealogical study of all the Staubs of southeastern Pennsylvania dating back to the 1700's.

A call to this woman resulted in the learning of Staub's correct birth data. He was born Louis Raphael Staub in New Oxford, Pennsylvania, June 27, 1877, the eighth of nine children. Subsequent efforts resulted in the locating of two daughters of the ballplayer. They reported that their father died in Bentley, Kansas, June 28, 1960, one day after his 83rd birthday. He had changed his name to Louis Staub Durham in late 1902, and continued to use the pseudonym for the rest of his life.

When asked the reason why Mr. Staub chose the name "Bull Durham" upon deciding to change his name, the two daughters were of the opinion that their father had taken a liking to the smoking tobacco of the day. What they didn't know was that he was a teammate of Jimmy Durham at Cedar Rapids in 1902 and the two had developed a close friendship. They were also teammates at Louisville in 1907 and were pictured alongside one another on the Louisville team photo. They also didn't know that thier father, upon settling in Kansas in 1926, chose to live the rest of his life in Jimmy's home state. And, they didn't know that their father's early occupation of being a patent medicine specialist was closely related to Jimmy's occupation of pharmacist. Is it possible that Bull worked for Jimmy in some capacity during the years? And, did he idolize Jimmy enough to honor him by adopting his sirname?

These questions probably will never be answered. However, it's nice to know that the T-206 series can now rest in peace.