Who are the most "over-valued" players

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by jingram058

But as stated above, Mantle and Wagner have to be at the top of overvalued.

Cards perhaps (I'm not going to say the T206 Wagner is overvalued given it's lore and enduring myth presence), but just in terms of garden variety fandom Cobb seems to be way more popular than Wagner. And that to me seems a bit messed up.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Cards perhaps (I'm not going to say the T206 Wagner is overvalued given it's lore and enduring myth presence), but just in terms of garden variety fandom Cobb seems to be way more popular than Wagner. And that to me seems a bit messed up.

Why? I have no wish to denigrate the legendary Honus Wagner but Ty Cobb's lifetime batting average and OPS of .388 and .944 were higher than Honus Wagner's marks of .328 and .862 respectively. Moreover Ty Cobb's record for lifetime hits wasn't broken until Pete Rose did so in 1985. Finally Ty Cobb is still #4 (#3 under the present day definition) in the all-important category of stolen bases.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Why? I have no wish to denigrate the legendary Honus Wagner but Ty Cobb's lifetime batting average and OPS were .388 and .944 were higher than Honus Wagner's marks of .328 and .862 respectively. Moreover Ty Cobb's record for lifetime hits wasn't broken until Pete Rose did so in 1985. Finally Ty Cobb is still #4 (#3 under the present day definition) in the all-important category of stolen bases.

My apologies; I had to spend 5 minutes scrolling up looking for the context of what I wrote in January:

I wouldn't split hairs if you want to call Cobb the greater player - ok. Most would agree.

But Cobb was not more popular than Wagner to fans of the day. It's not as if Cobb were Cobb and Wagner was a Harold Baines level HOF'er. He's kind of up there.

I forget the premise detail points that have already been made, but as we know - card values aren't necessarily a direct tie to a player's accomplishments on the field in equal measure with other players.

[Balticfox]

But are Ty Cobb's cards far more expensive overall than those of Honus Wagner? Looking at the same sets of course.

[Popcorn]

If Clemente lived to 80 and didn’t die so young his cards would be similar in value to Kaline imo.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

But are Ty Cobb's cards far more expensive overall than those of Honus Wagner? Looking at the same sets of course.

I couldn't say personally; I don't do a ton of prewar. But if they are more expensive on average, you would be making my point. Say Wagner was 95% the player that Cobb was. His cards likely don't reflect that. Much in the way that Aaron, Mays, Musial, Williams and others in the long run were easily better on the field than Mickey Mantle. But you wouldn't know that looking at prices in the garden variety 1950's Topps set.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Say Wagner was 95% the player that Cobb was.

While the stats are the stats, we're all certainly aware that many of these players' contemporaries would have said it was the other way around. There are obviously factors to be considered with such an assessment, but the argument was always there.