Fernando Valenzuela Secretarial?

[Brent G.]

I dunno — I have these two — one certified by PSA and the other was denied for being secretarial.

[bowmanred]

I have definitely seen that second one certified by PSA multiple times as well.

[Kaneen]

PSA certifies them all, the real ones and the TTM secretarials. They also certify both the real Don Zimmer's and the Mrs. Don Zimmer's...it is maddening to me. It is easy to tell the difference, especially on Zimmer.

I got Fernando in person many times, including one time when his personal assistant was with him on a Dodgers road trip to my home graphing city. On that occasion I walked about a block alongside Fernando and his assistant. Fernando kept ignoring my request for an autograph, but he finally looked at me and said "He'll sign it for you" and then they just looked at each other and laughed. (You know, the kind of laugh where they are in on an inside joke and you're not.) Fernando just kept on suggesting "he'll sign it for you,"and then they'd smile and laugh. I replied, "But I'd really appreciate if you would sign it." Fernando then said, "He can do it better than I can!" And again they had a good laugh. When we finally arrived at the door of the hotel Fernando took my SI magazine and signed it. This encounter led me to believe I had just met the person who signed all (or certainly most) of Fernando's mail requests.

Anyhow, I have studied Fernando's autograph extensively, and the following pic is a side by side comparison of in person vs. TTM:



The one on the left I got in person...the one on the right I got TTM. The TTM version has a different formation on the "F" and always has the long below the line tail on the "z" in Valenzuela.

And here is the in person signed SI magazine Fernando signed for me the day I believe I also met his personal ghostsigner.



I strongly believe the OP's example, and the encapsulated versions above, to be secretarial...probably signed by the guy with the brief case who walked around with Fernando all weekend in Cincinnati a few years ago.

[bowmanred]

Wow. Thank you so much for that detailed response; it definitely confirms my suspicions. Cool that you got to meet Valenzuela, even if he didn't want to sign. It can be very difficult to suss out the secretarials when they make it into slabs and/or are shown on the AutographFacts page.

[earlywynnfan]

So Kevin, you're opinion would be that this one is "secretarial?" It came in a large auction grouping, so I don't know the history.

[Kaneen]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

So Kevin, you're opinion would be that this one is "secretarial?" It came in a large auction grouping, so I don't know the history.

Hi Ken...it's difficult to see the beginning of that signature, but honestly I don't know what to make of this one. If someone on eBay was selling this my initial reaction would be that it's a poor attempt at a forgery of the secretarial version of his signature. It certainly doesn't resemble any of the in person signatures I ever got from Fernando.

That said, I do also allow for the fact that sometimes a player will sign an in person autograph in a crowd or a rush and you never know what kind of messy signature you might get. Alex Rodriguez signed an 8x10 in person for me at Spring Training one time that would probably never pass authentication by a TPA. So who really knows.

[Scott Garner]

FWIW, I'm not sure that I agree with the observation that secretarial Fernando autographs exhibit the long tail below the signature.

When I lived in So Cal I managed to get Fernando's autograph 3 times in the wild.
For your consideration, please see the attached photo of the autograph that he signed for me at the LA Open at Riviera CC in Pacific Palisades, CA in the early-mid 1990's.

OT, so sad about the fires in LA. RIP to the 16 people that died in the fires.

I spotted Fernando and his son walking in to watch the tournament and managed to get this autograph on my golf periscope.
To say that he was a reluctant signer is the understatement of the year, but I did get it as the result of some serious begging from my close friend when I initially got rebuffed.

Note the long tales
I wouldn't necessarily subscribe to the theory that secretarial Fernando autographs were the only ones that had this characteristic.

RIP Fernando, one of the great characters in the MLB.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by Kaneen

Alex Rodriguez signed an 8x10 in person for me at Spring Training one time that would probably never pass authentication by a TPA. So who really knows.

Unfortunately, that's no worse than many of the autographs from today's athletes that are signed in relaxed conditions.