Heritage Buyers Premium

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

Let's say you had an item you expected to sell for $1M. AH1 has 20% BP and offers 15 points back. AH2 has 22% BP and offers 17 points back. Which one are you going to choose? Wouldn't you rather have the upside if bidders end up exceeding their limits?

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This is purely a thought exercise for me, but if you're saying the net fees to me are roughly the same (my math says $41k to $41.5k) then what I would be most concerned about is making sure the bidding gets to $1M. Does having a 22% BP get me higher bids?

I don't know anybody who has $1M to spend on cards that would say "What the hell, it's just another $20k in fees". (Except Ryan, apparently.)

I guess I would be more worried about the opposite. Does the fact that the BP is higher give the perception that the card is worth less? Is it less likely for a bidder to bid $1M seeing that the BP would be $180k?

My point is, I think I would focus on how to make sure I get my $1M, not the (slight) potential of an extra $20k.

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[Snapolit1]

I don't care what anyone says about Facebook groups. . . . there are a lot of scumbag losers on Facebook and a lot of "older" people [like me] who want no part of it and never did. Even more importantly, I would imagine that the average person getting a box of beautiful catalogs from Heritage or Mile High has economic assets far surpassing the typical Facebook goober. Of course there are exceptions, but when you buy with an AH you are not relying on the integrity of some random person.

Why do you go to a good auction house? To get your stuff in front of rich people who can spend big money. And you are relying on the skills of someone to market it in an attractive way to those folks. Period.

Same reason people list their real estate now with Sotherby's and happily pay their commission.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Same reason people list their real estate now with Sotherby's and happily pay their commission.

Eh, I actually grumbled quite a bit when Sotheby's took 22% of my home sale.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I don't know anybody who has $1M to spend on cards that would say "What the hell, it's just another $20k in fees". (Except Ryan, apparently.)

It’s not the actual $$s. It’s all relative. If you were going to spend $120 for a card ($100 hammer plus $20bp), wouldn’t you spend $122? Are you really going to let it get away over $2?

Let’s say you were going to spend $1200 on a card ($1000 hammer and $200 BP). Wouldn’t you spend $1220 to get the card, or will you let it get away over $20?

Now $12,000 ($10,000 hammer plus $2000 BP). Are you not going to pay $12,200 to get the card?

On $120,000…. It’s $122,000. I understand it’s another $2,000 but if you were going to pay $120k I don’t think you let the card get away over another $2000.

And so on. I suppose at some point the 2% becomes large enough that it gives you pause, but I think it’s relative.

And BTW - many auction houses started charging state taxes after the Wayfair ruling in 2018. In Maryland, that resulted in 6% more cost than before; I expect that’s about average. I don’t think the implementation of state taxes had a material change in bidding habits. In fact, card prices have soared since we started paying state taxes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

A rational person would still take state taxes into account when bidding. That the market has independently soared due to other forces since 2018 doesn't speak one way or the other to that, it's an illogical observation. If hypothetically the market overall had stayed flat, hammer prices would be down because of taxes being added to the bill, at least in a world where most people bid rationally.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A rational person would still take state taxes into account when bidding. That the market has independently soared due to other forces since 2018 doesn't speak one way or the other to that, it's an illogical observation. If hypothetically the market overall had stayed flat, hammer prices would be down because of taxes being added to the bill, at least in a world where most people bid rationally.

Put me down for the hypothesis that baseball card buyers participating in auctions do not bid rationally.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Put me down for the hypothesis that baseball card buyers participating in auctions do not bid rationally.

Well, undoubtedly there is some of that, especially very late at night, but I still think for the most part they do understand how their bid will translate into a final price..

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well, undoubtedly there is some of that, especially very late at night, but I still think for the most part they do understand how their bid will translate into a final price..

I don’t disagree with that concept.

I just think that the math isn’t the most important part of the calculus.

The most important part is the jonesing and coveting.

That and the realization that all of this restraint leads to losing just about every auction, because some other bidder is willing to be less restrained.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I don’t disagree with that concept.

I just think that the math isn’t the most important part of the calculus.

The most important part is the jonesing and coveting.

That and the realization that all of this restraint leads to losing just about every auction, because some other bidder is willing to be less restrained.

There is a difference between knowing how much you will have to pay based on your bid, and how much you are willing to pay. The debates about BP usually are about the former; as people have claimed bidders do not take it into account.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

It’s not the actual $$s. It’s all relative. If you were going to spend $120 for a card ($100 hammer plus $20bp), wouldn’t you spend $122? Are you really going to let it get away over $2?

Let’s say you were going to spend $1200 on a card ($1000 hammer and $200 BP). Wouldn’t you spend $1220 to get the card, or will you let it get away over $20?

Now $12,000 ($10,000 hammer plus $2000 BP). Are you not going to pay $12,200 to get the card?

On $120,000…. It’s $122,000. I understand it’s another $2,000 but if you were going to pay $120k I don’t think you let the card get away over another $2000.

And so on. I suppose at some point the 2% becomes large enough that it gives you pause, but I think it’s relative.

And BTW - many auction houses started charging state taxes after the Wayfair ruling in 2018. In Maryland, that resulted in 6% more cost than before; I expect that’s about average. I don’t think the implementation of state taxes had a material change in bidding habits. In fact, card prices have soared since we started paying state taxes.

Yeah, the problem for me is that if I'm at $1200, I probably set a limit for myself of $1000 and am $200 over already. At some point you have to stop, don't you? Even if it's just another 2%.

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[Jewish-collector]

Sometimes, Al, you just gotta say, WTF and bid more than everyone else. beer chug.gif

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Sometimes, Al, you just gotta say, WTF and bid more than everyone else. Attachment 646549

yes! this is what the AH's hope for. And honestly...I fall into this mentality more often than not if its an item I have to have. Sometimes I'm just stupid!!!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

yes! this is what the AH's hope for. And honestly...I fall into this mentality more often than not if its an item I have to have. Sometimes I'm just stupid!!!!

We are collectors. Sometimes we are all stupid!

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Sometimes, Al, you just gotta say, WTF and bid more than everyone else. Attachment 646549

You're not helping!

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