Let’s rehash the Bond Bread controversy.

[GasHouseGang]

I didn't want to reread this whole thread, but I know somewhere it was asked to post cards that came in the boxes. I picked up this small group of movie star cards that came in a box labeled Screen Star Subjects - Series 1. These cards all have the rounded edges.

[Yoda]

I participated early in this post while trying to determine if my Rizutto and Musial, one with a blank back, the other with the Bond Bread info, both with rounded corners, were truly ones pulled from a loaf. They were graded by SGC as 1947 Bond Bread. This thread has removed that concern, and I have watched with fascination as more and more info was divulged about the various permutations that has made this set so intriguing.

I wouldn't worry about Ted Z. He loved a good debate about cards and sets and on those rare occasions when he was shown he might have erred, he was happy to add it to his broad knowledge base.

I believe a special shoutout to John and Butch for their investigations about this perplexing set is necessary. I now know a lot more about the cards but perhaps the final story is yet be revealed.

[Johnphotoman]

GasHouseGang- very nice, thank you. Can you post the backs and tell me if they are bright white stock, or cream white. Thank You this helps a lot, more to come on these cards. John

[Johnphotoman]

Yoda - Thank you, I too believe the final story is yet to be revealed. We are close. John.

[Johnphotoman]

Yoda: I don’t remember what answer I gave before, I believe the cards that have printed backs were for sale, not in boxes and not inserted into loaves of Bond Bread. The card with blank backs and rounded corners is either a card that was inserted into loaves of Bond Bread: if it has a cream white back. On the other hand, if the card has a bright white back it is from…Collectors & Traders Sport Star Subjects which came in boxes. Interestingly enough the Sport star Subjects cards started coming out in the 1930s. John

[Johnphotoman]

Pat R: “My friend's mother purchased a set for him and he told me that she purchased them from an ad in the NY Times. There are images of all of them in post #53 in the old thread.”

https://net54baseball.com/showthread...-P%40trick%20R

Pat: What we now know teaches that the images in post #53 of the old thread (cards of your friend) are from the Festburg cards discovered in NJ 1980s- Ivory / Beige paper stock, squared corners, 2 ¼ x 3 ½, .1mm thick, weight 1 gram. It could be the same set… from the letter from The Sporting News from the 1980s…from Stanley Apfelbaum see post 140 in this thread.

As for Matt74 his cards may not be from the Festburg discovered, he says his cards have cream colored backs that are almost white. I have reached out to him, maybe he can post images of his cards front and back. I am thinking they should look like the images below only with squared corners, 2 ¼ x 3 ½, .1mm thick, weight 1 gram.

PS> The first two cards show as cream white: The Festburg card is the one in the middle. Again remember we are not seeing the true colors of the cards.


Thanks John.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Johnphotoman

Yoda: I don’t remember what answer I gave before, I believe the cards that have printed backs were for sale, not in boxes and not inserted into loaves of Bond Bread. The card with blank backs and rounded corners is either a card that was inserted into loaves of Bond Bread: if it has a cream white back. On the other hand, if the card has a bright white back it is from…Collectors & Traders Sport Star Subjects which came in boxes. Interestingly enough the Sport star Subjects cards started coming out in the 1930s. John

John, tks for the clarification. My Rizutto has a cream white back and rounded corners, so I am assuming it went into loaves of Bond Bread. Regardless, I am happy to have both my 1947 Bond Bread rookies confirmed as inserts. Now that I know the facts, thanks to you, Butch and Ray, I am just going to enjoy the cards as part of my PC. John

[Exhibitman]

I think we're getting a little circular and confusing here in regard to Exhibit Supply Company (ESCO) products, so let's just clarify:

1. ESCO made it own cards. See the Groucho original art and card in an earlier post. It did not contract for others' designs, like Aarco.

2. ESCO was not a commercial printing house. On occasion, it would specially print backs on its cards for commercial clients. Dad's Cookies, for example. The only known deviation from that is the Wrigley Field set of alltime greats made in the 1960s for sale at the ballpark. That was at a point when the company was circling the toilet and was desperate.

3. ESCO's main trade was selling vending machines and restocks for those machines. The cards had to fit the machines. It did not vary card sizes because [drumroll please] different sizes would foul the machine mechanisms. When ESCO acquired the card business of the International Mutoscope Reel Company (aka "Mutoscope") in the late 1940s, it reshot the Mutoscope designs to fit its machines. Here is a comparison:



ESCo on the left, Mutoscope on the right.

There are some 1950s ESCO cards with Mutoscope PC backs:



My hunch is that these were made with old card stock that ESCO had from its Mutoscope acquisition and decided to use; waste not, want not.

4. There is no way that the "Bond Bread Exhibits" were made by or for ESCO machines. The stock and size are wrong. I do not think they are Mutoscope products either, because the size and stock are wrong for those machines. There are many arcade-style cards that ESCO and Mutoscope did not make. Whether they were vendable in ESCO or Mutoscope machines is an open question. Some examples:




E282 Oh Boy Gum, a Goudey point-of-sale handout:





Coney Island Arcade, made to use in the arcade's many Mutoscope machines after IMRCo was kaput:



1962 Kennywood (Pittsburgh) Amusement Park:



Pacific Ocean Park (pirated ESCO design):



Anonymous 1920s design, poss. Philadelphia area:

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I believe a special shoutout to John and Butch for their investigations about this perplexing set is necessary. I now know a lot more about the cards but perhaps the final story is yet be revealed.

Yoda, thank you for the shout out. But I must cede the larger portion of the shout out goes to John. He has certainly brought more light to this topic since he dared to wade back into this topic.

One way or another, I am just happy to have more supporting information to what we have here.

Best to you,

Butch

[Johnphotoman]

I said it before…but my apologies to Ted Z, and his family and friends. Every time I start going over the information we have on the Bond Bread cards, I think about Ted Z and how I might be throwing dirt on his legacy.

Like I said Ted Z had an agenda, “his way or the highway.” Thanks to Yoda, I realized it was not an agenda but a debate. Did he get something's wrong? Yes, we all do, but as Yoda said, “on those rare occasions when he was shown he might have erred, he was happy to add it to his broad knowledge base”.

I believe if Ted Z was here with us today he would be happy to add his broad knowledge to this debate and follow the information wherever it leads us. Thanks to all, Happy New Year : John.