Richie Allen and Dave Parker.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

Richie Allen had to go thru some stuff, but they certainly didn't put him in the Hall because he was a great team man.

Many of his former managers and teammates have disputed that assessment of him.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Many of his former managers and teammates have disputed that assessment of him.

+1
Chuck Tanner and Jim Kaat had nothing but great things to say about Dick Allen.

[lumberjack]

I base what I am saying on Bill James' evaluation of Allen. Of course, Bill James thought George Sisler and Bill Terry were overrated and refused to believe Pete Rose bet on games for far too long.

Bill James is always a good read.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Although he later recanted, in his 2003 tome, James says Biggio is better than Griffey.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

I base what I am saying on Bill James' evaluation of Allen. Of course, Bill James thought George Sisler and Bill Terry were overrated and refused to believe Pete Rose bet on games for far too long.

Bill James is always a good read.

I can't find the recent article I was reading about this, but here's a link to an older one. Also, one of the reasons he didn't get along with the media (at least in Philly) is because they refused to use his preferred name when writing about him which was Dick not Richie.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/...21g1mm49z9wvnr

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I can't find the recent article I was reading about this, but here's a link to an older one. Also, one of the reasons he didn't get along with the media (at least in Philly) is because they refused to use his preferred name when writing about him which was Dick not Richie.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/...21g1mm49z9wvnr

Dick Allen is certainly a controversial figure.

Here is another article, which was written in SABR magazine in 1995 and reposted here about the subject: https://web.archive.org/web/20190411...ory=11&id=2065

Gene Mauch managed Allen longer than any other manager, and had this to say about Allen:

"I've never been in contact with a greater talent. He was held in absolute awe by every player in the league. He had tremendous power. He had a great feel for the game, and he was one of the finest base runners -- which is different from base stealing -- that I ever saw. If I was managing California today and Allen was in his prime, I'd take him in a minute."

James' basic complaint against Allen is that he was a divisive presence on his teams, that: "Every team that he played for degenerated into warring camps of pro-Dick Allen and anti-Dick Allen factions." When Mauch was asked if that was true with any of his teams, he was emphatic in his denial, "Never. His teammates always liked him. You could go forever and not meet a more charming fellow." Later in the interview he came back to this topic to make the following point:

"He wasn't doing anything to hurt [his teammates] play of the game, and he didn't involve his teammates in his problems. When he was personally rebellious, he didn't try to bring other players into it."

Chuck Tanner, his coach while with with the White Sox had this to say: "Dick was the leader of our team, the captain, the manager on the field. He took care of the young kids, took them under his wing. And he played every game as if it was his last day on earth."

Manager Red Schoendienst who coached him in St. Louis remembered Dick this way:

"He did a real fine job for me. He had a great year, led our team in RBIs, and he never gave me any trouble. ... I planned on using him at first base, but with [Mike] Shannon's illness, I had to use him some at third base, and I played him a few games in the outfield, too. He was good about that."

When asked if Allen was a divisive presence among his teammates, Red said, "Absolutely not. He was great in our clubhouse. He got along with everybody. He wasn't a rah-rah guy, but he came to play. They respected him, and they liked him."

When White Sox GM Roland Holland was asked whether the team ever divided into pro-Allen and anti-Allen groups, he said, "No, there was none of that" and when Tanner was asked the same question about Bill James' criticism of Allen as a disruptive presence on a team Tanner said, "He's full of #@#@#@#@, and you be sure to tell him that."

In his biography Clearing Bases, Mike Schmidt credited Dick Allen in as his mentor. According to Schmidt "The baseball writers used to claim that Dick would divide the clubhouse along racial lines. That was a lie. The truth is that Dick never divided any clubhouse."

Perhaps some of this is revisionist history, but I am glad Allen finally got in, and think he was deserving.

[jayshum]

Here's the article I was looking for, but it may be paywalled.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2025-cla...te-dick-allen/

From the article in case you can't get to it:

"Allen did nothing to deserve the racism and hatred he battled in Little Rock and Philadelphia, or the condescension of the lily-white, paternalistic media that refused to even call him by his correct name. To underplay the extent to which those forces shaped his conduct and his public persona thereafter is to hold him to an impossibly high standard; not everyone can be Jackie Robinson or Ernie Banks, nor should they have to be. The distortions that influenced the negative views of him — including Bill James’ crushing dismissal (“[Allen] did more to keep his teams from winning than anybody else who ever played major league baseball. And if that’s a Hall of Famer, I’m a lug nut.”) in The Politics of Glory — were damaging. To give them the upper hand is to reject honest inquiry into his career.

Sabermetrician Don Malcolm called that passage “the absolute nadir of Bill James’ career, a summary statement so blatantly biased that his long-time friend and associate Craig Wright felt compelled to write an essay refuting Bill’s perspective… Everyone knows that Dick Allen was a great hitter; there’s just all that other baggage that they’re afraid to open.” Having opened it, well, it’s not pretty, but by now it’s abundantly clear that it wasn’t all Allen’s baggage to begin with. Wright’s work, which featured interviews with all but one of Allen’s big league managers (the late Dodgers skipper Walter Alston) as well as several teammates, strongly refutes the notion that Allen was a divisive clubhouse presence or a particular problem for his managers aside from his early-career tardiness (and his extreme behavior in 1969). “His teammates always liked him,” said Mauch. “He wasn’t doing anything to hurt [his teammates] play of the game, and he didn’t involve his teammates in his problems. When he was personally rebellious, he didn’t try to bring other players into it.”

Even Skinner and Ozark, the two managers portrayed as the most openly critical of him, told Wright that Allen wasn’t the problem with their teams and that they’d have him back again if given the chance."

[toppcat]

Dave Parker makes Harold Baines look like a first ballot HOF selection.

[Snapolit1]

I don’t think it would have taken much to convince the Dick Young’s of the world that Allen was some sort of violent black panther activist.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Dave Parker makes Harold Baines look like a first ballot HOF selection.

There were times when Parker was considered one of the top players in the game. I'm not sure the same was ever true about Baines.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Dave Parker makes Harold Baines look like a first ballot HOF selection.

My point, which could have been more elegant I guess, was to point out neither had a HOF career.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Here is another article, which was written in SABR magazine in 1995 and reposted here about the subject: https://web.archive.org/web/20190411...ory=11&id=2065

Thanks for sharing the Craig Wright article - really informative read.