Let’s rehash the Bond Bread controversy.

[Johnphotoman]

Thank you, I would bet they are Bond Bread 1947 W571/D0305. Or Aarco Playing Cards, who originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12 under the name Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects, printed on a whiter more on the cream side then the 1947 square corner printed on heaver more on the gray side of paper. If you ever get the time can you post a couple here, so we can see. Thanks John.

[Johnphotoman]

IMG_2400.jpg more like this, cream color.

[Johnphotoman]

To quote Bob Lemke’s blog, “Chicago publisher, Aarco Playing Cards, that originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12 under the name Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. The cards are black-and-white, blank-backed, 2-1/4" x 3-3/8" with rounded corners. Photos are borderless portraits or posed action shots with a facsimile autograph or script name.”

In 1947, “the N.Y. baker of Bond Bread evidently contracted with Aarco to obtain a quantity of the cards for distribution in loaves of bread. Later, for reasons unknown, square-cornered versions of half the cards in the set, printed on different card stock, were also produced.”

Matt 74, I believe you could have the same set that butchie t has, the 24 set from the 1970-1980, from the Original sets printed in 1947, the photos above was to show 1947 Square Corner cards printed on a heavier gray stock than the originals. I do not have any of the originals that I can post. Thank you John.

[Johnphotoman]

Thank you Pete, (Ullmandds), you can tell the Festberg - discovered in a NJ warehouse in the 1980's…from the 1947 cards. By looking at the back of the cards, they are more brown than the white or gray stock used to print on. And the quality of printing, the pictures are not as sharp. If you post the back of the cards that would help. From the front of the cards you posted, they do not look like the 1980 Festberg find to me. John

[Johnphotoman]

The point that I am trying to make is….both the butchie t and Ullmandds, cards, who purchased their cards around the 1970-1980 - Is that I believe they are not from the1980s Festberg - discovered in NJ. As I understand it, we have sets from 1947: Aarco Playing Cards, that originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12 under the name Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. The cards are black-and-white, blank-backed, 2-1/4" x 3-3/8" with rounded corners. Photos are borderless portraits or posed action shots with a facsimile autograph or script name.” And Bond Bread was printed the same as the Sports Star cards. Also we have square-cornered versions of half the cards in the set, printed on different card stock , in 1947. We can tell the difference from the reprints from the 1980s Festberg - discovered in NJ. and the cards printed in 1947.John.

[Matt74]

John, I have no doubt in my mind that they are the same cards Butchie T has... I just need to find them, however, I had picked up 3 more this past year which have a darker back, more of a beige than cream, but no where near as dark as the original pic in the thread. Musial and Williams from one vendor, and a Kiner from another. I'm trying to post pics of the front and backs of these, but my upload keeps failing. They pass the smell test (although not as strong as most older cards) and they are very thin, like I remember my set. Strange thing is, the Kiner is just a touch shorter than the other 2 (trimmed? maybe). I'll try to upload some pictures of these again tomorrow.

[Johnphotoman]

Thank you, Matt74-Quality control was really not that good in the 1940s, cards do not all come out the same size every time. It's not that unusual to see different size cards. Paper stock could have changed during a run of cards, I think that is why we have so many different cards printed on different card stock. In 1947, paper was considered extremely scarce due to the aftermath of World War II, where massive amounts of paper were used for military purposes, leading to significant shortages even after the war ended; this scarcity prompted widespread recycling, with many countries implementing paper rationing systems. Paper was scarce in 1947: During Wartime our military consumed vast quantities of paper, significantly depleting supplies .Limited paper availability affected everything from newspapers and magazines to packaging materials, making everyday items harder to acquire.Therefore sometimes during a run of cards- they would have to change the paper. But they all came from the same run of cards. Therefore a batch of cards would have different card stock in the same run of cards. Many people miss this, and say the cards are fake, or re-runs printed at some other time. . John

[Johnphotoman]

What we have to do is stop believing that cards from the 1940-50s printed on some other kind of paper stock, say like the cards Ted Z collected right out of loaves of Bond Bread are fake or re-prints from some other time, ie, after the 50s; just because they are on another kind of paper.

I believe this was done by people who wanted their cards - on what they thought was the right kind of paper would bring a premium price, or be able to say they have the only true originals, or what they have is rarer than anything else. Or they just believed in what they believed in, and that is why people want to believe that a baseball card on different stock is not from 1947-50s. But as new facts have come to light it has changed our way of thinking.

We can tell old paper stock from modern paper stock. In many different ways, one by a black light. Also by comparing the paper stock to a known 1947 printed card. Yes there were deep fakes printed after 1947-50s on different paper stock, but we can tell them apart by the quality of printing.

Understand, to print the exact image on a card from 1947 you had to have the original photograph, and the odds of a much later print having that original photograph is near 0%. Therefore they would have to copy the original printed card. We can tell when this is done, see the example above. Please understand that cards printing from the 1940-1950s can be printing on many different paper stocks. As I have said it is a (fact) theory, or I should say it is believed that a print run being printed - sometimes hard to change paper stock during a run right in the middle of the run: because they would run out of the supply that had. Therefore they would have to find a replacement stock, because of the shortage of paper in the 1940-50s they would use what they had on hand. You would have one card on the exact same card printed on different paper stock of the exact same image for the same run. John.

[Johnphotoman]

Pat R-

Patrick, I did check out thread 53 from Ted Z, and I would say the cards you have or friend have are not from the "Festberg" find. But from 1947 Sports Star- printed by the Chicago publisher, Aarco Playing Cards, that originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12. John