REA catalog just arrived…. almost as fun as the old time Sears Christmas

[Republicaninmass]

apparently the market can absorb

7 1951 bowman mantles
7 1951 bowman mays
5 1952 topps mantles
7 1952 topps Mays



bet ya 75% These will be posted on facebook groups before they are even shipped

I've never seen anything like it

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

apparently the market can absorb

7 1951 bowman mantles
7 1951 bowman mays
5 1952 topps mantles
7 1952 topps Mays



bet ya 75% These will be posted on facebook groups before they are even shipped

I've never seen anything like it

What a time to be alive!!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

apparently the market can absorb

7 1951 bowman mantles
7 1951 bowman mays
5 1952 topps mantles
7 1952 topps Mays



bet ya 75% These will be posted on facebook groups before they are even shipped

I've never seen anything like it

I recall a day, not that long ago, when REA would not take the same card in similar grades. Show me the money! Careful where you consign, people.

[Kutcher55]

Well then, safe to say the debate has ended with regards to 2024 Net54's Man of the Year. That costume Jeff, holy moly they should sell that at REA Auction as well. Might not get as much as the actual Ruth but it would do pretty well!

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I recall a day, not that long ago, when REA would not take the same card in similar grades. Show me the money! Careful where you consign, people.

In the minds of most, you don't get any better than REA. You know, you can ask them & YOU have a choice whether or not a card goes in their auctions. Ask them for example, how many '51 Bowman Mantle's are in the next auction. They'll tell you. Again, you have the choice to consign to the current auction or wait until the next one.

[samosa4u]

Think of all the people who pump their cards online. Somebody will post his lower-grade 52T Mantle (there are thousands of them) or his 86F Jordan (millions of them) and everybody is just like "Oh my God!!! Oh my God !!! Congrats!! My dream card !!!" Now, think about what the OP came across here: a Babe Ruth rookie ... actually, TWO Babe Ruth rookies, Shoeless Joe and a hundred others ... and all have these super-rare backs that we'll probably never see again ...
I can't blame him for pumping them cause' I would do the same thing if I had been in his shoes ... actually, no, I would go beyond that! I'd make a music video with these cards and put strippers in the background ... I'd get a Morehouse Ruth tattoo on my bum ... seriously, I would go crazy !! Finding something like this is insane. I totally get it.
And there is nothing better than investing in a Ruth rookie. In five years, it'll be worth double.
Good luck to you all !!

[Snowman]

I think this hobby needs a metric to evaluate how delusionally out of touch the buyer pool is going to be for a given auction based on the number of certs that begin with a 0 or 1. Every time I look through these auctions I just crack up at seeing all the clearly altered cards that everyone just can't wait to add to their registries and all the PSA "8" holders that would be lucky to get 6s today lol.

Maybe we can call it the Registry Ratio, or perhaps the Lichtman Score. The ratio of early certs to recent certs. If you have a Lichtman Score greater than 0.5, your collection is over graded. If your score is greater than 1, you would be wise to reevaluate your purchasing decisions. If it's above 2, you're likely a delusional registry chaser, and if it's 3 or more, you're probably a lawyer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I think this hobby needs a metric to evaluate how delusionally out of touch the buyer pool is going to be for a given auction based on the number of certs that begin with a 0 or 1. Every time I look through these auctions I just crack up at seeing all the clearly altered cards that everyone just can't wait to add to their registries and all the PSA "8" holders that would be lucky to get 6s today lol.

Maybe we can call it the Registry Ratio, or perhaps the Lichtman Score. The ratio of early certs to recent certs. If you have a Lichtman Score greater than 0.5, your collection is over graded. If your score is greater than 1, you would be wise to reevaluate your purchasing decisions. If it's above 2, you're likely a delusional registry chaser, and if it's 3 or more, you're probably a lawyer.

Leaving to one side the problem of altered cards and focusing just on grading, AT THE TIME of these certs (indeed up until the late 2010s or so) the hobby did not have an issue with the standards being applied to grade cards. They reflected the prevailing consensus. There were regular complaints that PSA was too harsh (see old CU posts on the "grader of death") but rarely that they were too lenient. That many older certs seem overgraded from today's perspective is an inevitable consequence of tightened standards but hardly seems a reason to mock people?

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Think of all the people who pump their cards online. Somebody will post his lower-grade 52T Mantle (there are thousands of them) or his 86F Jordan (millions of them) and everybody is just like "Oh my God!!! Oh my God !!! Congrats!! My dream card !!!" Now, think about what the OP came across here: a Babe Ruth rookie ... actually, TWO Babe Ruth rookies, Shoeless Joe and a hundred others ... and all have these super-rare backs that we'll probably never see again ...
I can't blame him for pumping them cause' I would do the same thing if I had been in his shoes ... actually, no, I would go beyond that! I'd make a music video with these cards and put strippers in the background ... I'd get a Morehouse Ruth tattoo on my bum ... seriously, I would go crazy !! Finding something like this is insane. I totally get it.
And there is nothing better than investing in a Ruth rookie. In five years, it'll be worth double.
Good luck to you all !!

Hey, a side hustle here… tattoo art for hobbyists! (Starting with the “cancelled” stamp for your backside &#128514

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

Hey, a side hustle here… tattoo art for hobbyists! (Starting with the “cancelled” stamp for your backside ��)

At least here they don't have to skip over the facebook posts

"With all the amazing news surrounding the discovery of the ruth Morehouse, I'm looking at buying a signed Ruth ball"

Please let us know when you buy one!


Edited...guess i spoke too soon

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

In the minds of most, you don't get any better than REA. You know, you can ask them & YOU have a choice whether or not a card goes in their auctions. Ask them for example, how many '51 Bowman Mantle's are in the next auction. They'll tell you. Again, you have the choice to consign to the current auction or wait until the next one.

Was only making an observation. Was not attacking your favorite house. Of course a consignor can ask. I wonder how many think to ask. In addition REA has Huggins and Scott going on with even more overlap.

I am not sure if prices are hurt by having so many of the same card offered at once but I understand why an auction house would do it and have posted in their defense. Why let a competitor get the consignments by only having one of something. Bad for business.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I seem to recall the claim made by myself and others wasn't that it had nothing to do with the case but rather that it had nothing to do with the sentencing. He wasn't charged for trimming the Wagner and he wasn't sentenced for it. It seems to have only come up because he was trying to propose a plea deal and/or as a way to demonstrate what sort of character he was.

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'll go one step further. I'm tripling down on my claim. Peter's take is bullshit. And there are numerous lawyers in the hobby that disagree with his take as well. Mastro was not charged or sentenced for trimming the Wagner or for not disclosing said trimming. Period.

Originally Posted by Snowman

You guys can keep dancing around this all you want. You can argue semantics or say I'm misusing terms or "moving the goalposts" or whatever you want. I don't care. My main point has been quite clear from the beginning of this conversation (which started elsewhere, years ago and which Peter just can't seem to let go of for some strange reason). My point is and always has been that nobody, including Mastro, has ever been "tried and convicted?", "charged and convicted?", "tried by a jury?", "found guilty by a judge?" for the "crime" (or however the hell you want to word it) of altering and selling a sports card. It hasn't happened. And you pointing to the fact that it was mentioned in a lengthy indictment full of other crimes for which he could not escape in a case that didn't go to trial because he struck a plea deal doesn't mean he would have been found guilty of that charge by a judge or a jury. It just doesn't. I get that in the "logic" of lawyer-land, you guys all think a "conviction" by plea deal is equivalent to a conviction by a jury, because "Yay! I won my case!", but it doesn't make it true. HE WAS NEVER TRIED ON THE CHARGE OF ALTERING/SELLING THAT WAGNER. Not by a jury. Not by the standard that matters with respect to what I've been arguing now for years.

Why would this distinction matter? Again, not a lawyer here, but I'd wager my left nut that a plea deal does not set a precedent for jack shit with respect to future cases for precisely the reasons I'm alluding to (and likely many others).

Originally Posted by Snowman

What does the indictment have to do with this conversation? You can put whatever you want in an indictment. What matters is what he was actually found guilty of and sentenced for. That's what we're talking about. Show me where I can find something along the lines of the jury saying "As to count #11, we the jury find the charge of the defendant trimming the Honus Wagner baseball card and failing to disclose said alteration upon selling it: GUILTY".

You can't because it didn't happen.

I'm not saying it wasn't brought up at trial. I'm saying he wasn't sentenced for it and he didn't go to prison for it.

Aspergers guy getting frisky.

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Aspergers guy getting frisky.

Nice bond bread Jackie you have. 2 thumbs up

He does have a point though. E.g. There’s a certain popular t206 currently at auction that is laughable. PSA 0x cert. 3 grade w/ that appears cut short & has paper loss. The hammer price hopefully reflects this.

There are plenty of other examples like the 1952 Topps Jackie Robinson (PSA 8 - 02023137 ) that was obviously trimmed. Was recently reholdered & kept the 8 grade & resold privately. It also sold for over $100k twice since 2020. Current owner must have filed a claim w/ PSA as the card as been regraded as “authentic altered”

In some ways I feel bad for the current Collectors mgt as they are cleaning up & literally paying for the mistakes of the previous regime. So those types of payout costs being passed on to us. Plus we are dealing with their current overly strict inconsistent grading. Even SGC’s grading consistency seems to have changed since early summer.

Side note: I’m ranked high on a few PSA player set registries. Never going to have a chance at the top slot even if I cared because those people own high-grade early cert trimmed cards.

[calvindog]

PSA’s first card was trimmed. We’re going to pretend that many to most high graded cards aren’t altered? And the disparity between grading standards across the years? You could lose your mind trying to walk between the raindrops in buying graded cards.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Aspergers guy getting frisky.

I think congratulations are in order, as you had your name mentioned. As did Judge Wapner's


Raymond: One minute to Wapner

Charlie: Yes, one minute to Wapner. I had you in there, Ray! You were in there! The defendant, the plaintiff, you had it all. They are in there making legal history

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Aspergers guy getting frisky.

You should keep pretending like someone striking a plea deal is equivalent to them being tried and found guilty by a jury of every single thing mentioned in that plea deal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

You should keep pretending like someone striking a plea deal is equivalent to them being tried and found guilty by a jury of every single thing mentioned in that plea deal.

I have to admire a man who is shown to be clearly wrong, but instead of admitting he's out of his depth, then doubles down. Over and over again. You've been wrong about nearly every single thing you've said about the Mastro case since the beginning when you kept insisting that the Wagner card was not even part of the charges. But this -- thinking you know more about guilty pleas than a leading criminal defense lawyer -- is truly beyond the pale lol.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Snowman

You should keep pretending like someone striking a plea deal is equivalent to them being tried and found guilty by a jury of every single thing mentioned in that plea deal.

There's something seriously wrong with your brain, Asperger's.

Again: a defendant who pled guilty to charges has the same effect as being convicted by a jury -- in fact, most would suggest he's more guilty by pleading because he can't blame a mistaken jury or government misconduct at a trial, or any number of potential appellate issues which could vacate his conviction.

Mastro pled guilty to every charge he faced and admitted to even more bad conduct which wasn't charged.

But you know more about the law because you have a ten card collection and you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

apparently the market can absorb

7 1951 bowman mantles
7 1951 bowman mays
5 1952 topps mantles
7 1952 topps Mays



bet ya 75% These will be posted on facebook groups before they are even shipped

I've never seen anything like it

This is the new normal. I don't know how these guys make money when you are trying to sell a card that sold 1 month ago. Insane.