eras committee candidates baseball HOF

[Kutcher55]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How does it reward compilers? If people at the end of their careers have lousy years, they don't accumulate much if any WAR for those seasons, look at Pujols? From 2016 on he essentially added no WAR despite adding to the counting stats totals. I believe same is true of Cabrera.

Was checking and yeah you’re right Peter it doesn’t always reward compilers. A guy like Don Sutton was able to eke his way into the HOF with some modestly effective +WAR years late in his career but then again Jim Kaat, another classic compiler, had negative WAR late in his career, and probably shouldn’t be in the HOF anyway but that’s a separate argument.

WAR does a credible job identifying the true greats of the game who were good for a long time (ie, nobody with a 100+ WAR played for less than 15 years). For borderline HOFers it should be one of many considerations and it clearly has been just that. The Jeter/Grich argument being the ultimate example, as I don’t think too many people would say DJ doesn’t belong in the HOF whereas Grich wasn’t even close and will likely never make it despite being a terrific player (I wouldn’t vote for him either).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

Was checking and yeah you’re right Peter it doesn’t always reward compilers. A guy like Don Sutton was able to eke his way into the HOF with some modestly effective +WAR years late in his career but then again Jim Kaat, another classic compiler, had negative WAR late in his career, and probably shouldn’t be in the HOF anyway but that’s a separate argument.

WAR does a credible job identifying the true greats of the game who were good for a long time (ie, nobody with a 100+ WAR played for less than 15 years). For borderline HOFers it should be one of many considerations and it clearly has been just that. The Jeter/Grich argument being the ultimate example, as I don’t think too many people would say DJ doesn’t belong in the HOF whereas Grich wasn’t even close and will likely never make it despite being a terrific player (I wouldn’t vote for him either).

Which all begs the question, how in the hell did Harold Baines (WAR under 40) make it?

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Which all begs the question, how in the hell did Harold Baines (WAR under 40) make it?

ERA committees are going to be weak. It's a very small number of humans making judgement calls and whether they choose to involve stats is up to them...and which stats they choose to care about.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

ERA committees are going to be weak. It's a very small number of humans making judgement calls and whether they choose to involve stats is up to them...and which stats they choose to care about.

Baines had a lot of hits but didn't seem to have much else going for him. Was he ever, even early on, among the top ten players in the AL, much less baseball?

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Baines had a lot of hits but didn't seem to have much else going for him. Was he ever, even early on, among the top ten players in the AL, much less baseball?

Not that I remember. Never. I even asked my 79 year old dad about Baines. Neither one of us remember anyone ever saying “Baines is sure one of the top players in baseball” while he was active. He was above avg / a fine player.

[Kutcher55]

Some of that weakest guys seem to get in that way. See Rizutto, Phil. Although “Holy Cow” may have been the intangible that put him over.

I would like to see Garvey, Dwight Evans, Tiant, and Schilling all get in but not a hill I’m willing to die on.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

Some of that weakest guys seem to get in that way. See Rizutto, Phil. Although “Holy Cow” may have been the intangible that put him over.

I would like to see Garvey, Dwight Evans, Tiant, and Schilling all get in but not a hill I’m willing to die on.

As an Italian-American Yankees fan I'm not exactly unbiased, but I think Rizzuto is an okay Hall of Famer. He's not a great Hall of Famer, but there are far, far weaker Hall of Famers than him. His counting stats are low, but he lost three years of his prime to the Navy. He wasn't usually much at the plate, but he was a truly great fielder by any measure.

I'd be happy to see Tiant, Evans, and Schilling in the HOF - not a Garvey believer myself.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

Some of that weakest guys seem to get in that way. See Rizutto, Phil. Although “Holy Cow” may have been the intangible that put him over.

I would like to see Garvey, Dwight Evans, Tiant, and Schilling all get in but not a hill I’m willing to die on.

I would put him in solely on the basis of Paradise By the Dashboard Light.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

I would like to see Garvey, Dwight Evans, Tiant, and Schilling all get in but not a hill I’m willing to die on.

I'd love to see Evans get in as well. As someone else mentioned somewhere on the forum, he was constantly overshadowed by one or more superstar teammates. When one or two of those retired or were traded, another one or two came right along to make sure Dwight was NOT in the spotlight! Honestly, for his personality, I think he was just fine with that. And everyone in Massachusetts loved the guy; rightly so. My kind of player, and person.

With Schilling, it's a lesson to all of us that a douchey personality will always be your worst enemy. Your achievements matter very little if you can't treat others with some modicum of respect.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would argue that at least in some cases WAR does a good job of offsetting late career added counting stats. Take Pujols again. 2018 and 2019, he adds 42 HR and 157 RBI to his counting stats (the latter thanks to Mike Trout being on base so damn much in front of him), but had a ZERO total WAR.