Ebay Seller: PSA

[Fred]

To all that spin things the way you feel. It was never stated in my post that PSA is selling their own cards, but it is stated that it would be wrong if they did.

Bottom line, this hobby has enough crap going on so if PSA did sell their own cards and assigned high "subjective" numbers to their own cards they are selling, it wouldn't surprise me. I didn't say PSA does do that. Perhaps it will be spun that's what was said (or misinterpreted).

Perhaps someone should start a poll and see how this board feels about PSA selling "their own" graded cards that are not owned by people that have their cards in the PSA vault.

Here's another wild possibility: PSA got into the vault business just to cover up a little impropriety by selling their own cards. I'm not saying they are, but what if?

Just curious, how many people on this board have registry sets and would hate to see this whole house of cards collapse and drop valuations by a very high percentage? I wouldn't care, in fact I really hope it happens. I bet there are quite a few people on this board that would love to see this go back to being a bunch of people collecting because they love the stuff, not for it's value, but because what it represents to them as a baseball fan.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Nobody is misinterpreting, but by your own admission you are talking about this scenario as though it were plausible to happen in the future. On what basis is it remotely plausible? And if it isn't what's the point of it? We could come up with 1000 highly improbable things to talk about but nobody would want to.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody is misinterpreting, but by your own admission you are talking about this scenario as though it were plausible to happen in the future. On what basis is it remotely plausible? And if it isn't what's the point of it? We could come up with 1000 highly improbable things to talk about but nobody would want to.

Yes, I'm guessing it's plausible. Does every post necessitate a complete explanation to you? I'm guessing this hit a sensitive nerve for you. Uh, really, a 1,000 highly improbable things to talk about? So why don't you tell us why it's not remotely plausible that PSA wouldn't sell their own cards.

You brought that up. All I did was respond to the original post and somehow it got twisted to me saying I was accusing PSA of selling their own cards (which if you read the unedited post, it does not state PSA is selling their own cards).

In subsequent posts it was stated that it wouldn't surprise me if PSA would do that. Big difference than saying they do.

It's a thought/opinion which if you don't agree with, then you just don't agree with it. Please re-read my original post and tell me where it said PSA was selling their own cards. I'm sure others can go back and read it. Better yet, maybe I'll start a poll and ask people if the original post says that PSA sells their own cards (it doesn't).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fred

Yes, I'm guessing it's plausible. Does every post necessitate a complete explanation to you? I'm guessing this hit a sensitive nerve for you. Uh, really, a 1,000 highly improbable things to talk about? So why don't you tell us why it's not remotely plausible that PSA wouldn't sell their own cards.

You brought that up. All I did was respond to the original post and somehow it got twisted to me saying I was accusing PSA of selling their own cards (which if you read the unedited post, it does not state PSA is selling their own cards).

In subsequent posts it was stated that it wouldn't surprise me if PSA would do that. Big difference than saying they do.

It's a thought/opinion which if you don't agree with, then you just don't agree with it. Please re-read my original post and tell me where it said PSA was selling their own cards. I'm sure others can go back and read it. Better yet, maybe I'll start a poll and ask people if the original post says that PSA sells their own cards (it doesn't).

None of that answers the question. I never said you said PSA was selling their own cards. Straw man. Rather, I said that by your own admission, you are talking about it as though it were a plausible scenario. That is, it could happen. And my question to you was, and is, why do you think it's plausible? "I'm guessing it's plausible" is not much of an answer. And I have no clue about the "sensitive nerve" part but whatever. PS Ironic that for all your concern people misread your post, you misread mine lol.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

None of that answers the question. I never said you said PSA was selling their own cards. Straw man. Rather, I said that by your own admission, you are talking about it as though it were a plausible scenario. That is, it could happen. And my question to you was, and is, why do you think it's plausible? "I'm guessing it's plausible" is not much of an answer. And I have no clue about the "sensitive nerve" part but whatever. PS Ironic that for all your concern people misread your post, you misread mine lol.

The reason I think it's plausible is because of greed. Simple one word answer.

There have been so many issues that people have found out about TPG's (let's just call it as it is - PSA because they are without a doubt the king of grading). PSA does not appear to be doing anything about the issues, but one thing is for certain, they appear to be about fully capitalizing their business (which is what businesses are supposed to do) and if it gets to the point where profitability begins to wane, then it wouldn't surprise me to see some bonehead exec putting two and two together and coming up with a million (greed).

The truly sad part is that people just don't seem to care as long as they're making money or the appearance of making money (by holding cardboard for it's current valuation).

A point to consider (which has been widely discussed in other threads, no new revelation here) - why are they charging so much to grade high end cards? They can sit back on their "subjectivity". There's no guarantee with the service they provide, so why stick it to the collecting public and charge so much for their opinion? Why, because they can because there are a lot of people whose main concern is the Benjamins and making more off this thing that used to be a fun hobby. PSA will figure out more ways to make money off the collecting public because that's what they do.

Do you feel it's not plausible? If so, I bet there are a few readers that would love to read your thoughts on why not.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fred

The reason I think it's plausible is because of greed. Simple one word answer.

There have been so many issues that people have found out about TPG's (let's just call it as it is - PSA because they are without a doubt the king of grading). PSA does not appear to be doing anything about the issues, but one thing is for certain, they appear to be about fully capitalizing their business (which is what businesses are supposed to do) and if it gets to the point where profitability begins to wane, then it wouldn't surprise me to see some bonehead exec putting two and two together and coming up with a million (greed).

The truly sad part is that people just don't seem to care as long as they're making money or the appearance of making money (by holding cardboard for it's current valuation).

A point to consider (which has been widely discussed in other threads, no new revelation here) - why are they charging so much to grade high end cards? They can sit back on their "subjectivity". There's no guarantee with the service they provide, so why stick it to the collecting public and charge so much for their opinion? Why, because they can because there are a lot of people whose main concern is the Benjamins and making more off this thing that used to be a fun hobby. PSA will figure out more ways to make money off the collecting public because that's what they do.

Do you feel it's not plausible? If so, I bet there are a few readers that would love to read your thoughts on why not.

They have completely cornered and dominate the third party grading market which is absolutely thriving. They authenticate all sorts of stuff like type 1 photos, balls, autographs, who knows what else. PCGS is a dominant player in coins. They surely have other sources of revenue as well such as their authentication deals with ebay. PSA as an entity does not "own" cards and I can't imagine that fits in the business plan. And even if it did, they could easily sell through auction houses, they don't need to sell through an ebay account. Why would they, to shill cards up a few bucks? They can do that anyhow, believe me. If you are saying Nat Turner would do it to sell his own cards, that makes no sense to me either.

Even if they were ruthlessly greedy, that doesn't mean they want to expand to every corner and level of the hobby.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They have completely cornered and dominate the third party grading market which is absolutely thriving. They authenticate all sorts of stuff like type 1 photos, balls, autographs, who knows what else. PCGS is a dominant player in coins. They surely have other sources of revenue as well such as their authentication deals with ebay. PSA as an entity does not "own" cards and I can't imagine that fits in the business plan. And even if it did, they could easily sell through auction houses, they don't need to sell through an ebay account. Why would they, to shill cards up a few bucks? They can do that anyhow, believe me. If you are saying Nat Turner would do it to sell his own cards, that makes no sense to me either.

Even if they were ruthlessly greedy, that doesn't mean they want to expand to every corner and level of the hobby.

Well, it'd be difficult to debate your points. But... it wouldn't be a few bucks.
This can easily can get 3 or 4 extra zeros deep. Even for cards that only get pushed a couple extra zeros, that still adds up after a while and those cards are easily absorbed into circulation. A single grade point could push a card to a point that the ROI is insane.

I don't want to start a conspiracy theory, but should we believe, or be naive enough to not believe there's no impropriety going on behind PSA management's back with the number of submissions being handled on a yearly basis? All it takes is a few $20/hour submission and grading monkeys to figure things out and spin a few hundred grand profit under everyone's noses every year. Ok, that would not be a PSA thing because it wouldn't be authorized. But again, at some point after all the good ideas for making more money don't pan out, there's always going to be pushing a few 10s or low pop 9s out there and selling it through one of the many available networks (AHs, fleabay, shows).

I guess I don't have as much faith as you have when it comes to people doing the right thing all the time. Perhaps that has to do with the way the business has been run from day one - PSA8 Wags. Yes, new blood is in, but they're looking to make a profit.

Your points are good and was worth the read. Thank you for that.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Fred

Just curious, how many people on this board have registry sets and would hate to see this whole house of cards collapse and drop valuations by a very high percentage? I wouldn't care, in fact I really hope it happens. I bet there are quite a few people on this board that would love to see this go back to being a bunch of people collecting because they love the stuff, not for it's value, but because what it represents to them as a baseball fan.

I’m definitely among the hard core set registry acolytes. A complete collapse in graded pieces would not be fun for my net worth, or for my relationship with my wife.

At the same time, I have suggested that I wouldn’t mind some decline in prices, so that I can buy more nice stuff to expand my collection without having to spend 6 or 7 figures to make it happen.

In spite of all that, I would definitely still suggest that I love my collection, first and foremost for what it means to me. Some will struggle to believe it, simply because of allegations made around here suggesting that anyone who collects graded or is on the registry must be a TPG goon who doesn’t care about the actual cards and only cares about the size of their hands relative to other collectors. But honestly, in my case, the value is an afterthought that happens to come along for the ride. And sadly one that I can’t ignore because it’s a big number.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I’m definitely among the hard core set registry acolytes. A complete collapse in graded pieces would not be fun for my net worth, or for my relationship with my wife.

At the same time, I have suggested that I wouldn’t mind some decline in prices, so that I can buy more nice stuff to expand my collection without having to spend 6 or 7 figures to make it happen.

In spite of all that, I would definitely still suggest that I love my collection, first and foremost for what it means to me. Some will struggle to believe it, simply because of allegations made around here suggesting that anyone who collects graded or is on the registry must be a TPG goon who doesn’t care about the actual cards and only cares about the size of their hands relative to other collectors. But honestly, in my case, the value is an afterthought that happens to come along for the ride. And sadly one that I can’t ignore because it’s a big number.

Lots of different ways to collect baseball cards. It would seem there is room for all types and not sure I quite understand the resentment and/or superiority one sometimes sees from both sides toward the other. Honestly, most people are probably somewhere in the middle.