Fake Lajoie slabbed by PSA, Ebay seller: vintage_card_shop

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by G1911

Just in case this claim was serious....

Huh?! Why would I not be serious?

Originally Posted by G1911

...this card is just a Fritsch reprint, which was not produced for fraudulent purposes, altered by somebody else to look old. That's why the lines are how they are, matching the Fritsch copy. This is not from 1916-1917. It is not from the Philippines. It is not copyright infringement from over a century ago.

That's the first mention of Fritsch reprint I've seen in this thread. If you're referring to Larry Fritsch Cards (from whom I've bought), whyever would they have produced a copy of a 100+ year old card anyway?

[Rich Klein]

Fritsch as TCMA did in the 1970's (1973 had several) issued those reprints and clearly marked as such so collectors could have cards they might have

1) Never Seen or were very difficult to find

2) Could not afford

3) At a price level they (Meaning Fritsch TCMA etc.) could make $$$.


Regards
Rich

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Huh?! Why would I not be serious?



That's the first mention of Fritsch reprint I've seen in this thread. If you're referring to Larry Fritsch Cards (from whom I've bought), whyever would they have produced a copy of a 100+ year old card anyway?

Fritsch reprints were mentioned in the OP.

Originally Posted by nolemmings

What you have is a Larry Fritsch reprint first sold 30+years ago and still available. Your card was purposely scuffed and otherwise made to look like it came from 1916. It did not.

Larry Fritsch was the king of reprints. It's amazing that a regular customer wouldn't know this.

There was nothing nefarious about it, they were sold and usually clearly marked Reprint. Between he and Larry Gelman of Card Collectors Company they produced nice quality reprints largely of sets most collectors couldn't afford.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Huh?! Why would I not be serious?



That's the first mention of Fritsch reprint I've seen in this thread. If you're referring to Larry Fritsch Cards (from whom I've bought), whyever would they have produced a copy of a 100+ year old card anyway?

I mean, Fritsch was right there in the OP, and it's pretty obvious that this is just a reprint and not some Phillipines period pirated item. I'm positive we can all figure out why a reprint of a 100 year old card would be made. How can somebody be a Fritsch customer and not be familiar with the tons of reprints filling their catalogs still to this day? There's no exciting conspiracy here, it's just a Fritsch reprint that has been aged and the "Reprint" stamp removed to try and fool some people.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by G1911

...it's pretty obvious that this is just a reprint and not some Phillipines period pirated item.

Well clearly it wasn't obvious to PSA either and they're in the card grading/authentication business.

Originally Posted by G1911

I'm positive we can all figure out why a reprint of a 100 year old card would be made.

Well it's also pretty obvious to any collector that reprints can/will eventually be passed off as the real thing. Therefore why couldn't a pro such as Larry Fritsch figure that out before reprinting the darn thing? Was he just trying to make a quick buck the consequences be damned? Is that what you're saying?

Originally Posted by G1911

How can somebody be a Fritsch customer and not be familiar with the tons of reprints filling their catalogs still to this day?

A customer(me) from circa 2000 who had no interest in any reprints of pre-WWI cards that might or might not have been in Fritsch's catalog at the time certainly could.

Originally Posted by G1911

There's no exciting conspiracy here, it's just a Fritsch reprint that has been aged and the "Reprint" stamp removed to try and fool some people.

Excuse me but I wasn't positing any "conspiracy". I was just guessing that the card could simply have originated from a knock off printing back in the day. You're the one suggesting that a conspiracy to deceive by removing a reprint stamp and subjecting the card to aging is in evidence here.

The question now is whether PSA will compensate anyone who relied on their "authentication" for any losses they may have sustained purchasing this piece of crap slab.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Well clearly it wasn't obvious to PSA either and they're in the card grading/authentication business.



Well it's also pretty obvious to any collector that reprints can/will eventually be passed off as the real thing. Therefore why couldn't a pro such as Larry Fritsch figure that out before reprinting the darn thing? Was he just trying to make a quick buck the consequences be damned? Is that what you're saying?



A customer(me) from circa 2000 who had no interest in any reprints of pre-WWI cards that might or might not have been in Fritsch's catalog at the time certainly could.



Excuse me but I wasn't positing any "conspiracy". I was just guessing that the card could simply have originated from a knock off printing back in the day. You're the one suggesting that a conspiracy to deceive by removing a reprint stamp and subjecting the card to aging is in evidence here.

The question now is whether PSA will compensate anyone who relied on their "authentication" for any losses they may have sustained purchasing this piece of crap slab.

What I am saying is what I said, in this transcript where no word is left out. If you can read, you will notice that nobody has accused Fritsch of any wrong doing whatsoever, much less creating fakes with an intent for other people to appropriate them to commit fraud. He made clearly marked reprints with other differences that are difficult to mistake for the real thing or the product of a 1916 Phillipines counterfeiting or knockoff ring ripping off worthless American Sporting News pictures (can common sense please enter the equation?). The Fritsch company has been selling them since the 1980's. This exact card has been in their catalog for decades. If this is shocking information to you, oh well.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by G1911

What I am saying is what I said, in this transcript where no word is left out.

Interesting. There's not a single word of yours above. I guess I'll add vision problems to your other "challenges".

Originally Posted by G1911

If you can read, you will notice that nobody has accused Fritsch of any wrong doing whatsoever....

You're very wrong. I did right here:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Well it's also pretty obvious to any collector that reprints can/will eventually be passed off as the real thing. Therefore why couldn't a pro such as Larry Fritsch figure that out before reprinting the darn thing? Was he just trying to make a quick buck the consequences be damned?

Originally Posted by G1911

He made clearly marked reprints with other differences that are difficult to mistake for the real thing....

Well these Fritsch reprints were obviously not clearly marked enough if one could so readily be "authenticated" by PSA. Either that or PSA isn't very good at doing what they say they do. Take your choice. It's one or the other.

Originally Posted by G1911

...or the product of a 1916 Phillipines counterfeiting or knockoff ring ripping off worthless American Sporting News pictures (can common sense please enter the equation?).

I posited no "counterfeiting ring". Just a Philippines company using cards obtained at minimal cost to help sell its product (probably cigarettes). In case you hadn't noticed, cigarette cards first appeared in 1875. The phenomenon quickly spread across the globe because the cards did indeed increase sales. I'm surprised this needed to be explained to you.

Originally Posted by G1911

The Fritsch company has been selling them since the 1980's. This exact card has been in their catalog for decades. If this is shocking information to you, oh well.

Sorry. I'm not so easily shocked. Only disappointed if the card in question turns out to be one of Fritsch's.

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Well, then go fuck yourself, Mr. Argumentative(G1911).

Well as they say "Practice makes perfect." If G1911 continues to hone his craft, he may eventually rise to mediocrity.

[nolemmings]

Well, if you spent 5 minutes on ebay and typed in "m101 reprint" you will see dozens of sales of Fritsch reprints, all clearly marked 'REPRINT" in the bottom right corner. This and almost every day. The topic of these fakes has been discussed here off and on for years, including how that bottom corner can be easily but usually noticeably obscured. So to suggest as you did in post #42 that the more you think about it, the more you are convinced it is not a present day fake is to show a lack of inquiry and a failure to even carefully read the first post. I can certainly understand why some here would roll their eyes and wonder how you could be serious.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Well, if you spent 5 minutes on ebay and typed in "m101 reprint" you will see dozens of sales of Fritsch reprints, all clearly marked 'REPRINT" in the bottom right corner.

Which I've never done because the topic hasn't come up for me.

Originally Posted by nolemmings

So to suggest as you did in post #42 that the more you think about it, the more you are convinced it is not a present day fake is to show a lack of inquiry and a failure to even carefully read the first post. I can certainly understand why some here would roll their eyes and wonder how you could be serious.

Okay. I can be wrong. But!!! The point should have been made without condescension. G1911 chose to be rude. That was a mistake.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Interesting. There's not a single word of yours above. I guess I'll add vision problems to your other "challenges".



You're very wrong. I did right here:







Well these Fritsch reprints were obviously not clearly marked enough if one could so readily be "authenticated" by PSA. Either that or PSA isn't very good at doing what they say they do. Take your choice. It's one or the other.



I posited no "counterfeiting ring". Just a Philippines company using cards obtained at minimal cost to help sell its product (probably cigarettes). In case you hadn't noticed, cigarette cards first appeared in 1875. The phenomenon quickly spread across the globe because the cards did indeed increase sales. I'm surprised this needed to be explained to you.



Sorry. I'm not so easily shocked. Only disappointed if the card in question turns out to be one of Fritsch's.



Well as they say "Practice makes perfect." If G1911 continues to hone his craft, he may eventually rise to mediocrity.

This is why it is difficult to take the crap you spew seriously lol. Your retort to my line that I what I mean is what I said in this preserved transcript is to claim "There's not a single word of yours above". I am sure that you can, in fact, understand there is a transcript, that I did post in it, and that's how you're managing to reply. Is this somebody's alt getting a laugh or is this guy actually this stupid?


You have been told the objective truth by several people. If that upsets you, oh well. If you cannot figure it out still, oh well. If your only retort when told the objective factual truth is to tell people to go fuck themselves and lie about the transcript, well, that sounds like Net54. Welcome.

[jingram058]

One of my best friends is a real contrarian. Takes an opposite or alternative view on everything. He has always been this way, going all the way back to grade school when we were kids. We call him "Mr. Perfect". No matter what the topic of discussion is, Mr. Perfect will weigh in with some contrarian, opposite counterpoint, always backed up with "facts". He had a girlfriend once some years back; very pretty and nice too. It lasted a few years, but fell apart in the end, because he drove her insane with his constant need to be right about everything.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is why it is difficult to take the crap you spew seriously lol.

Speaking of crap, you have a long history in that regard. Recognize these words?

Originally Posted by G1911

Yes, I'm lying about an obvious dick joke as part of a cover up .

Is this guy on the spectrum? I've never encountered somebody who truly cannot comprehend the idea of what a joke is. I'm a prick but it's starting to feel like picking on a special ed kid.

I'm glad I didn't step in that one.

Originally Posted by G1911

I am sure that you can, in fact, understand there is a transcript, that I did post in it, and that's how you're managing to reply.

Sorry, but I'm one of those people who believes that a quoted transcript should contain the words of the person ostensibly quoted. And the "transcript" of your words you tried to quote contained only mine. Now I understand that you may be computer challenged or that a touch of senility might be settling in, but I can only suggest that you get some help with the QUOTE feaure.

Originally Posted by G1911

Is this somebody's alt getting a laugh or is this guy actually this stupid?

Speaking of stupidity:

Originally Posted by G1911

Your retort to my line that I what I mean is what I said in this preserved transcript is to claim "There's not a single word of yours above".

Try rephrasing that sentence in the standard English grammar you were taught in fifth grade.

Originally Posted by G1911

You have been told the objective truth by several people.

"Objective?" The only objective evidence we have so far is that PSA doesn't stand by their original assessment of the card. (Surprise, surprise.) You can hold your breath for a further update from PSA if you want, but I suspect PSA will just try to sweep this one under the carpet with their other mistakes.

Originally Posted by G1911

If that upsets you, oh well.

I'll leave getting "upset" about the Lajoie card to you.

Originally Posted by G1911

If your only retort when told the objective factual truth is to tell people to go fuck themselves and lie about the transcript, well, that sounds like Net54.

1. I've lied about no transcripts.

2. Nor have I told "people" to fuck off. For one thing "people" is plural. (Another English lesson for you.) I merely quoted another poster's considered opinion of your (singular) best course of action. I am though certainly coming around to his way of thinking.

Incidentally, have you ever consdered contributing positively to this board? Should I QUOTE some examples for you?

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

The only one you engaged with is the one that you felt condescended.

Does that surprise you?

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

ot sure what that says, but I'm sure it says something about someone...

That G1911 is all too quick to make condescending remarks and that I don't take kindly to such and therefore bite right back.