New PSA Terms & Conditions: Comp. Damages and Injunctive Relief for Card Doctoring

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

That isn't desperation. That is just good business.

Good business? Penning this type of doggerel?

Originally Posted by 4815162342

PSA updated their Terms & Conditions last week to include the following language regarding card doctoring:

‘12. Doctored and Inauthentic Items; Fraud Prevention and Investigation.

(a) You represent and warrant that any item submitted for any PSA Grading Service is genuine and you have no knowledge and no reasonable basis to believe that the item is a “Doctored” item. You affirm your obligations with respect to Doctored items set forth in these Terms. For purposes of these Terms, “Doctor,” “Doctored” or “Doctoring” means the alteration of the appearance of an item by things such as, but not limited to, trimming, re-coloring, bleaching, power erasing, cleaning, waxing, re-backing or any other form of restoration used to enhance the appearance, condition or content of an item.

(b) You agree that you will not Doctor items or participate in any way in Doctoring items or submitting any items to PSA for grading which you know or have reason to believe have been Doctored in any way, and acknowledge that the determination as to whether an item should be authenticated or graded shall be made solely by PSA in accordance with its standards. You acknowledge that detecting Doctored items is very difficult. You acknowledge that PSA will not authenticate or grade items which, in the judgment of PSA, bear evidence of Doctoring. However, because the determination by PSA to reject such Doctored items will require a review by PSA’s personnel, you will be required to remit, as set forth herein, the standard fee for any such Doctored items that are submitted to PSA. You acknowledge that Doctoring is wrongful and inappropriate activity which is harmful to PSA, and all of your obligations in this Section 12 shall survive termination of these PSA Terms.

(d) You agree that PSA would suffer irreparable damages if you were to engage in Doctoring of any item and that PSA is entitled to not only compensatory damages but also preliminary and final injunctive relief for any breach of your obligation not to Doctor items or to submit Doctored items to PSA in violation of your obligations hereunder.

Me I'd have to be driven beyond desperation to pen or even sanction such doggerel being posted in my name.



Quite simply PSA's whole business model was based on providing buyers with a guaranty that the cards are as stated, i.e. the real thing. But they call into question their own competence/expertise with this attempt (whether you wan't to call it desperate or not) to limit their legal liability if and when they fail to detect that the card in question is the real thing. It's a very clear case of the emperor himself admitting he has no clothes.

They've thus undermined their whole business model. For what after all are customers paying if not some sort of guaranty?

[Peter_Spaeth]

You don't seem to be very in touch with the current market. I guarantee (haha) you the vast majority of buyers don't even know about the guarantee and if they do they don't care. SGC took the G out of its name and nobody cared. BODA revealed that the extent of altered cards was much greater than most had previously thought, and PSA's business skyrocketed. The guarantee is NOT the foundation of their business model, if it ever was, those days are long long gone. This isn't the 1990s any more.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You don't seem to be very in touch with the current market.

Stock, bond and commodities markets, yes (well at least sometimes). But as far as the card market goes, I didn't realize I had to be in the business of cards to post about the hobby of card collecting on this board. I'm all about the aesthetics of the cards themselves and not about the business of cards. And this move by PSA to distance themselves from liability for their mistakes does nothing, let me repeat nothing, for the hobby of card collecting.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I guarantee (haha) you the vast majority of buyers don't even know about the guarantee and if they do they don't care.

Maybe tomorrow I'll post a poll about that specific question.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

They've thus undermined their whole business model. For what after all are customers paying if not some sort of guaranty?

The guarantee has always applied to a subsequent purchaser. To my knowledge, it has never applied to the original submitter.

And the guarantee continues to apply to a subsequent purchaser.

The whole idea is that a buyer can buy with confidence, and tap the guarantee if necessary. For the original submitter, they are now potentially on the hook if they submit doctored cards to PSA. And, of course, the guarantee also helps the submitter to sell their stuff, because buyers trust the slab. Whether that trust is warranted, I grant you, is up to the market. And not everyone agrees on that point, even if the market currently respects the slab.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by raulus

The guarantee has always applied to a subsequent purchaser. To my knowledge, it has never applied to the original submitter.

And the guarantee continues to apply to a subsequent purchaser.

The whole idea is that a buyer can buy with confidence, and tap the guarantee if necessary.

Yes I understand. But the lengthy doggerel they've added to the Terms and Conditions nonetheless serves as a tacit admission that they don't necessarily get it right.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Of the thousands of people who submit to PSA and buy and sell PSA graded cards, how many actually care about this? I would think next to none. Non event. Zero revenue impact. On to the next sub.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of the thousands of people who submit to PSA and buy and sell PSA graded cards, how many actually care about this? I would think next to none. Non event. Zero revenue impact. On to the next sub.

The only ones who should care are the card doctors. I’m guessing that they’re either not paying attention, or they have no intention of materially modifying their approach to using the TPGs to launder their wares.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

The only ones who should care are the card doctors. I’m guessing that they’re either not paying attention, or they have no intention of materially modifying their approach to using the TPGs to launder their wares.

The top tier ones have made obscene amounts of money already, and my belief is they will keep on keeping on. I will say it again: this industry has been driven by the unholy alliance between card doctors, TPGs, and auction houses. If you think otherwise, you're kidding yourself.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The top tier ones have made obscene amounts of money already, and my belief is they will keep on keeping on. I will say it again: this industry has been driven by the unholy alliance between card doctors, TPGs, and auction houses. If you think otherwise, you're kidding yourself.

Any proposed solutions?

Go with the balticfox method of avoiding all slabbed cards always and everywhere?