The Rosen '52 find

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by ocjack

I think I recall Rosen saying in an interview that he sells cards because he can make money doing it. That if he could sell apples and make a huge profit, he would sell apples. So you're right, he had no "feelings" for the hobby other than as a way to make money.

Agree that was the motivation

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Agree that was the motivation

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

As far as pedigrees on slabs, only when it makes sense. I was asked if I wanted my collection slabs pedigreed, when I sold it. I said hell no....

.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

And I shall talk about Diamond Stars.

To me it always seemed the 1934 Diamond Stars green backs, which are card #'s 1 through 24 that have both a 1934 copyright date AND 1933 stats (with the exception of the #7 card of Lew Fonseca, which can be identified as a 1934 release instead of 1935 based upon his age listed in the biographical text - '34 years old' vs. '35 years old').

These 24 1934 cards have always seemed to me to be a little tougher to come by in comparison to the 1935 green back versions of cards 1 to 24.

Only nine cards in the set were issued in all three years (card numbers 2, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 12, 16 and 22). Shown below are the three back versions for card # 4 Buddy Myer:

distarsmyertrio 001 (1024x416).jpg
distarstriobacks 001 (1024x414).jpg

Cards shown on left are 1934 issued, in center 1935 issued, and 1936 on right.


Brian (as it relates to apples to oranges comparisons, tangents are my favorite fruit when it comes to collecting info to share)

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Leon

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

As far as pedigrees on slabs, only when it makes sense. I was asked if I wanted my collection slabs pedigreed, when I sold it. I said hell no....

.

I respect your humble decision Leon, but you did amass one of the greatest type collections ever, certainly worthy of a "Leon Luckey" label.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

As far as pedigrees on slabs, only when it makes sense. I was asked if I wanted my collection slabs pedigreed, when I sold it. I said hell no....

.

It probably would have devalued the cards.

[Ben Yourg]

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[tjisonline]

I don’t buy the Berger’s 52 Topps river dumping story. More like CCC (had Topps connections) bought the leftover 52 inventory (including uncut sheets), had them cut, & sold what they were able to over the next 10-15 years. Then their 1975 fire warehouse fire wiped out some real treasures including their hoard of 71 Greatest Moments test cards.

According to lore, rumors, etc… going back to the 1980s (when I collected as a kid), word had it Rosen & others came across uncut & large bordered 52 Topps 5th & 6th series sheets in addition to the 1986 52 find. Had them cut from sheets / trimmed & sold them. In my opinion, this is likely were many of today’s high grade 52 Topps 5th & 6th series originated from.

Please note everything typed in this post is my opinion & pure speculation .

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/202...btful.html?m=1

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2020...money.html?m=0

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

I don’t buy the Berger’s 52 Topps river dumping story. More like CCC (had Topps connections) bought the leftover 52 inventory (including uncut sheets), had them cut, & sold what they were able to over the next 10-15 years. Then their 1975 fire warehouse fire wiped out some real treasures including their hoard of 71 Greatest Moments test cards.

According to lore, rumors, etc… going back to the 1980s (when I collected as a kid), word had it Rosen & others came across uncut & large bordered 52 Topps 5th & 6th series sheets. Had them cut from sheets / trimmed & sold them. In my opinion, this is likely were many of today’s high grade 52 Topps 5th & 6th series originated from.

Please note everything typed in this post is my opinion & pure speculation .

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/202...btful.html?m=1

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2020...money.html?m=0

IIRC, There are period photos which show the packs the cards came from. Not sheets but "cello" type packs.

Rich

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

I don’t buy the Berger’s 52 Topps river dumping story. More like CCC (had Topps connections) bought the leftover 52 inventory (including uncut sheets), had them cut, & sold what they were able to over the next 10-15 years. Then their 1975 fire warehouse fire wiped out some real treasures including their hoard of 71 Greatest Moments test cards.

According to lore, rumors, etc… going back to the 1980s (when I collected as a kid), word had it Rosen & others came across uncut & large bordered 52 Topps 5th & 6th series sheets. Had them cut from sheets / trimmed & sold them. In my opinion, this is likely were many of today’s high grade 52 Topps 5th & 6th series originated from.

Please note everything typed in this post is my opinion & pure speculation .

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/202...btful.html?m=1

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2020...money.html?m=0

I'm with you there. I'm not buying the river dump story either

[Balticfox]

Neither does Toppcat.

[Exhibitman]

My $0.02 on Rosen:

https://open.substack.com/pub/adamst...utm_medium=web

[GasHouseGang]

That was a great summary and analysis of Rosen and his business. I saw him in operation a few times, and he just seemed like a big showman. But I guess it worked for him, and he was so well known that he did bring some nice cards into the hobby that may have never been discovered otherwise.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

My $0.02 on Rosen:

Nicely done, Adam. I knew several of his assistants, and I could never figure how they could stand being around the guy. They would just roll their eyes and tell me that he would throw them some smaller deals during the course of a show, which made it worthwhile for them, I suppose.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

My $0.02 on Rosen:

https://open.substack.com/pub/adamst...utm_medium=web

Adam, wonderful write up! Reminded me of the many times I saw Rosen perform at card shows back in the 1990's

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'm with you there. I'm not buying the river dump story either

Its the biggest fishing story I have ever heard. All the more they pump up the 52s highs.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Its the biggest fishing story I have ever heard. All the more they pump up the 52s highs.

The pop counts/scarcity is what makes the high numbers valuable though, not stories about why the pop counts are lower. The market doesn't care about why, it only cares about how many.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The pop counts/scarcity is what makes the high numbers valuable though, not stories about why the pop counts are lower. The market doesn't care about why, it only cares about how many.

But you're arguing that perception of reality isn't a crucial determinant of pricing. But it is. Prices move and move dramatically in response to changes in perception.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Its the biggest fishing story I have ever heard. All the more they pump up the 52s highs.

The pop counts/scarcity is what makes the high numbers valuable though, not stories about why the pop counts are lower. The market doesn't care about why, it only cares about how many.