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[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's interesting that there is much more of a nostalgia bias in baseball for some reason. But I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone of a certain age who -- with the possible exception of Schmidt -- is going to put anyone from the 1980s forward on their team. Can it really be that those 4+ decades (1/3 of the history of baseball if you discount the prehistoric years LOL) didn't produce any players worthy of consideration as all time greats?

I really think it is the talent levels. My football list starts with Unitas and Brown. Basketball starts with Russell and Chamberlain. I think they pushed their sports forward like Wagner, Cobb and Ruth did for baseball. If I start my list with players who debuted with those four, my baseball list starts with Frank Robinson and includes Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Rickey Henderson, Wade Boggs, Ken Griffey Jr, Albert Pujols and Mike Trout. My top 5 pitchers are Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Greg Maddox, Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez. The lists look comparable to with what you see with football and basketball.

The issue becomes when you add another 60 years for baseball with almost all of the best athletes going into that sport. The last 40 years of players for baseball becomes diluted and it looks like it does.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I really think it is the talent levels. My football list starts with Unitas and Brown. Basketball starts with Russell and Chamberlain. I think they pushed their sports forward like Wagner, Cobb and Ruth did for baseball. If I start my list with players who debuted with those four, my baseball list starts with Frank Robinson and includes Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Rickey Henderson, Wade Boggs, Ken Griffey Jr, Albert Pujols and Mike Trout. My top 5 pitchers are Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Greg Maddox, Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez. The lists look comparable to with what you see with football and basketball.

The issue becomes when you add another 60 years for baseball with almost all of the best athletes going into that sport. The last 40 years of players for baseball becomes diluted and it looks like it does.

The best white athletes anyhow, as the best black ones could not play in the major leagues, however much we now want to call the Negro League a major league. Those men did not have the same chance to establish themselves. Otherwise, our pre 1950 all time teams might look different. That footnoted, I think your points are well taken, pre 1950s football and basketball are essentially prehistoric, nobody is going to put Grange or Mikan on their all time starting team.