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[Seven]

Originally Posted by packs

Among active players you have Trout with 3 MVPs, Ohtani about to win his third, Judge about to win his second, and Harper with 2 MVPs to himself.

There have only been 11 players ever to win three or more MVP awards. There could potentially be 4 of them playing at the same time in the coming years.

Ohtani will become the 12th. Judge is 32 and Harper is 31.

I don't understand any avoidance of the modern game. Right now, you have the opportunity to watch a sport with some of the most dominant players you will see in your lifetime all active at the same time and in their primes. Even if Trout is oft injured, he's still just 33 years old.

I can understand people upset with how the modern game is handled. I still watch and there's many things about the game I do not like. How pitchers barely go the distance anymore, the patches of corporate sponsors on the uniform, the constant stream of never ending gambling adds, and how any sense of rationality with sports media has gone out the window.

[packs]

I just feel like you guys are part of this constant, if I may borrow from Lost, where people of a certain age just don't like current things anymore. I feel like you would have been interchangeably annoyed with every new iteration of the game, from catchers wearing pads, to fielders wearing gloves and on up to the 162 game season not being a real 154 gamer or being upset they moved the fences in. I understand the nostalgia that probably drives these feelings. Being a kid is fun and when you realize you've gotten older, you just want things to be like they were when you were a kid. And every new kid isn't getting to experience the best of life like you did. But you're missing out on a lot when you think that way because modern life isn't so terrible either.

Aaron Judge is not Babe Ruth but he did hit 62 homers. If I put myself into the future where I'm asking an older guy about what it was like to see Judge hit 62 homers, I'd be pretty let down if they said they didn't know because baseball wasn't stealing a lot of bases then, so they weren't watching anymore.

[btcarfagno]

I really enjoy the emotion in the game today. The quality of the pitching is unimaginable. The fact that hitters can hit that pitching at all boggles my mind. I don't miss the bunting. Am glad they are doing something to bring back stealing bases. Love the pitch clock and batter clock.

But...

The strikeouts and swinging for the fences on every pitch by every hitter in the lineup rubs me the wrong way big time. And the constant use of the bullpen leads to over-managing which I have always hated.

So I guess I mostly like and appreciate the game today but it is tough to watch a full game for me.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

I really enjoy the emotion in the game today. The quality of the pitching is unimaginable. The fact that hitters can hit that pitching at all boggles my mind. I don't miss the bunting. Am glad they are doing something to bring back stealing bases. Love the pitch clock and batter clock.

But...

The strikeouts and swinging for the fences on every pitch by every hitter in the lineup rubs me the wrong way big time. And the constant use of the bullpen leads to over-managing which I have always hated.

So I guess I mostly like and appreciate the game today but it is tough to watch a full game for me.

Same for me. I do love watching all the condensed games on the MLB app the next day.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by packs

I just feel like you guys are part of this constant, if I may borrow from Lost, where people of a certain age just don't like current things anymore. I feel like you would have been interchangeably annoyed with every new iteration of the game, from catchers wearing pads, to fielders wearing gloves and on up to the 162 game season not being a real 154 gamer or being upset they moved the fences in. I understand the nostalgia that probably drives these feelings. Being a kid is fun and when you realize you've gotten older, you just want things to be like they were when you were a kid. And every new kid isn't getting to experience the best of life like you did. But you're missing out on a lot when you think that way because modern life isn't so terrible either.

Aaron Judge is not Babe Ruth but he did hit 62 homers. If I put myself into the future where I'm asking an older guy about what it was like to see Judge hit 62 homers, I'd be pretty let down if they said they didn't know because baseball wasn't stealing a lot of bases then, so they weren't watching anymore.

I agree with a lot of this. But as someone who grew up watching baseball in the 70s, I miss complete games, four man rotations, shutouts and an era where good pitching was the focus of the game. The game isn’t the same for me due to the lack of dominant starting pitching. That being said, when I was a kid we’d get scores off the radio or on the nightly sports report. And we’d see box scores the next day — on all games but the late-ending west coast. I love being able to watch any game I want on demand.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think there's a universal tendency for people as they age to think things were better in the past. If you want to see this phenomenon ask anyone over say 50 for their all time great list, it will be heavily slanted and won't have a single player from the past four decades. From my perspective, as long as they don't move the pitcher's mound or the bases, or change 4 balls and 3 strikes, it would be really hard to kill baseball.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think there's a universal tendency for people as they age to think things were better in the past. If you want to see this phenomenon ask anyone over say 50 for their all time great list, it will be heavily slanted and won't have a single player from the past four decades. From my perspective, as long as they don't move the pitcher's mound or the bases, or change 4 balls and 3 strikes, it would be really hard to kill baseball.

I depends on how many you are asking for on the list. Mike Schmidt is regarded as the best 3rd baseman of all time and I have him high on my list. Bench is just outside your cutoff and is considered the greatest catcher of all time. Albert Pujols is a little lower, but with his Angel's years it is hard to put him too high. His first 12 years hold up against everyone short of Ruth. If Griffey Jr and Trout didn't get hurt, they could have been there. If Ohtani or Judge keep putting up numbers like this year, they will rise.

Part of the problem is you had a generation that got caught up in drugs. Guy like Gooden and Strawberry had the talent to be all time greats. Then you have all the steroids guys who have ruined their legacies in many people's eyes.

However, if you look at other sports, that is not the case. My top 10 list for basketball has Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan. For Football, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady with Patrick Mahomes building a resume. For Hockey, Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Ovechkin and Crosby.

Maybe the best athletes are no longer choosing baseball as it is no longer the #1 sport in the US. Jackie Robinson probably plays in the NFL if was active today, Bob Gibson is probably in the NBA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I depends on how many you are asking for on the list. Mike Schmidt is regarded as the best 3rd baseman of all time and I have him high on my list. Bench is just outside your cutoff and is considered the greatest catcher of all time. Albert Pujols is a little lower, but with his Angel's years it is hard to put him too high. His first 12 years hold up against everyone short of Ruth. If Griffey Jr and Trout didn't get hurt, they could have been there. If Ohtani or Judge keep putting up numbers like this year, they will rise.

Part of the problem is you had a generation that got caught up in drugs. Guy like Gooden and Strawberry had the talent to be all time greats. Then you have all the steroids guys who have ruined their legacies in many people's eyes.

However, if you look at other sports, that is not the case. My top 10 list for basketball has Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan. For Football, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady with Patrick Mahomes building a resume. For Hockey, Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Ovechkin and Crosby.

Maybe the best athletes are no longer choosing baseball as it is no longer the #1 sport in the US. Jackie Robinson probably plays in the NFL if was active today, Bob Gibson is probably in the NBA.

It's interesting that there is much more of a nostalgia bias in baseball for some reason. But I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone of a certain age who -- with the possible exception of Schmidt -- is going to put anyone from the 1980s forward on their team. Can it really be that those 4+ decades (1/3 of the history of baseball if you discount the prehistoric years LOL) didn't produce any players worthy of consideration as all time greats?

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone of a certain age who -- with the possible exception of Schmidt -- is going to put anyone from the 1980s forward on their team.

Roids tainted careers ruined this even if one believes the roids era of their careers were short compared to their careers on whole. It's not a hill I would die on to argue that any weren't juicing from day one, though.

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and ARod are/were (whatever) legends of our 1980s+ modern era. Their performances were all-time greatness in the entire history of the game.

That leaves us with Rickey Henderson who's career is suspected by most to be clean as an all-time legend. Guys like Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux are up there, too. Albert Pujols has the counting stats to be an all-time great, but in all honesty his alarmingly big investment kept him on the field longer than his playing ability.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's interesting that there is much more of a nostalgia bias in baseball for some reason. But I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone of a certain age who -- with the possible exception of Schmidt -- is going to put anyone from the 1980s forward on their team. Can it really be that those 4+ decades (1/3 of the history of baseball if you discount the prehistoric years LOL) didn't produce any players worthy of consideration as all time greats?

I really think it is the talent levels. My football list starts with Unitas and Brown. Basketball starts with Russell and Chamberlain. I think they pushed their sports forward like Wagner, Cobb and Ruth did for baseball. If I start my list with players who debuted with those four, my baseball list starts with Frank Robinson and includes Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Rickey Henderson, Wade Boggs, Ken Griffey Jr, Albert Pujols and Mike Trout. My top 5 pitchers are Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Greg Maddox, Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez. The lists look comparable to with what you see with football and basketball.

The issue becomes when you add another 60 years for baseball with almost all of the best athletes going into that sport. The last 40 years of players for baseball becomes diluted and it looks like it does.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The game isn’t the same for me due to the lack of dominant starting pitching.

Technology has a habit of being unfair. For quite a while, and especially currently, technology is vastly helping hitters train compared to pitchers.

Being able to use cameras to analyze hitters and pitchers is nearly an even playing field. We can map hitter swing planes, we can count spin rate on a pitch...etc.

However, advanced hitting tools for training are far more advanced compared to pitching tools. Video batting simulators where you can dial up almost anything a pitcher can do and practice with no assistance from anyone is so common there's been different vendors for many years. Pitchers have various digital and non-digital tools, too, but most of theirs are diagnostic in nature to identify points of correction.

When the Japanese-style "sticky" ball shows up in the bigs (currently used in AA), pitchers should get a bit more of their spin-rate tool back. Theoretically, that should help even the game out a bit.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by packs

I just feel like you guys are part of this constant, if I may borrow from Lost, where people of a certain age just don't like current things anymore. I feel like you would have been interchangeably annoyed with every new iteration of the game, from catchers wearing pads, to fielders wearing gloves and on up to the 162 game season not being a real 154 gamer or being upset they moved the fences in. I understand the nostalgia that probably drives these feelings. Being a kid is fun and when you realize you've gotten older, you just want things to be like they were when you were a kid. And every new kid isn't getting to experience the best of life like you did. But you're missing out on a lot when you think that way because modern life isn't so terrible either.

Aaron Judge is not Babe Ruth but he did hit 62 homers. If I put myself into the future where I'm asking an older guy about what it was like to see Judge hit 62 homers, I'd be pretty let down if they said they didn't know because baseball wasn't stealing a lot of bases then, so they weren't watching anymore.

It is called preference and we are entitled to preferences the last I checked. Change is great. I welcome the concept in my life but that does not mean that all changes sit well. There are a lot of things about the game of baseball today that make me a very casual fan of the game. Maybe that is my loss but I am not going to spend my time doing something I do not enjoy. Football has changed a great deal too over the decades but I love the game more with those changes.

[packs]

I'm talking about a general angst that seems to be present among the aging that stretches over a variety of casual interests, like music, movies, sports, etc. I think there's a lot of nostalgia tied up in this dislike of modernity. I realize that the individual preferences that exist within this realm, like what specifically you don't like, are there but I still think it's part of a larger and ever-present trend throughout all of time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can't find it but in Ken Burns' book he quotes a rant about how current players and the game in general just don't stack up to players of the past. LOL it was from 1914.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm talking about a general angst that seems to be present among the aging that stretches over a variety of casual interests, like music, movies, sports, etc. I think there's a lot of nostalgia tied up in this dislike of modernity. I realize that the individual preferences that exist within this realm, like what specifically you don't like, are there but I still think it's part of a larger and ever-present trend throughout all of time.

What I call "nostalgia bias" is HUGE on the Board. Not a criticism, I suffer from it myself.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by packs

I just feel like you guys are part of this constant, if I may borrow from Lost, where people of a certain age just don't like current things anymore. I feel like you would have been interchangeably annoyed with every new iteration of the game, from catchers wearing pads, to fielders wearing gloves and on up to the 162 game season not being a real 154 gamer or being upset they moved the fences in. I understand the nostalgia that probably drives these feelings. Being a kid is fun and when you realize you've gotten older, you just want things to be like they were when you were a kid. And every new kid isn't getting to experience the best of life like you did. But you're missing out on a lot when you think that way because modern life isn't so terrible either.

Aaron Judge is not Babe Ruth but he did hit 62 homers. If I put myself into the future where I'm asking an older guy about what it was like to see Judge hit 62 homers, I'd be pretty let down if they said they didn't know because baseball wasn't stealing a lot of bases then, so they weren't watching anymore.

I'm not sure if you were referring to me, but I'm 30. Most of the things I'm annoyed with does not effect the product on the field, outside of pitchers no longer going the distance. I still love baseball, I always will. The corporate patches on uniforms and constant gambling adds are something that add nothing to the game, IMO.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Seven

I'm not sure if you were referring to me, but I'm 30. Most of the things I'm annoyed with does not effect the product on the field, outside of pitchers no longer going the distance. I still love baseball, I always will. The corporate patches on uniforms and constant gambling adds are something that add nothing to the game, IMO.

+1, add the extra inning ghost runner to that list.