New PSA Terms & Conditions: Comp. Damages and Injunctive Relief for Card Doctoring

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I find the fact that PSA has a guarantee to begin with absolutely baffling. Someone important at Collectors is either remarkably ignorant about the true extent to which cards in their holders are "doctored" or they're incapable of thinking this through to the finish line. There's a reason SGC quietly got rid of their guarantee despite it being literally in the name. PSA will either have to change their stance on card doctoring or they will have to abandon their guarantee, because they can't have both without going belly up.

Oh please Travis. They've been in business, with the same guarantee, for 33 years. They aren't going belly up and they aren't going anywhere. They just say no and limit their liability. The graders stand behind the grade. Before and after photos are not evidence. Whatever it takes. Ask A.J. Very few people are going to sue them. I promise you they have thought this through, if nothing else all these dire predictions were raised countless times during the "scandal." Joe Orlando was not stupid. Nat Turner is not stupid. Their investors are not stupid.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh please Travis. They've been in business, with the same guarantee, for 33 years. They aren't going belly up and they aren't going anywhere. They just say no and limit their liability. The graders stand behind the grade. Before and after photos are not evidence. Whatever it takes. Ask A.J. Very few people are going to sue them. I promise you they have thought this through, if nothing else all these dire predictions were raised countless times during the "scandal." Joe Orlando was not stupid. Nat Turner is not stupid. Their investors are not stupid.

And you now have a growing population of the hobby who does not give any weight to a card being altered or possibly being altered because you still need to be able to prove it, even if not in a court of law.

Anyway, most collectors almost appreciate it, it seems, because without that work having been done on that card, it would not have been available to them to buy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

CU was a public company for decades. They are now owned by very sophisticated and successful people. The notion that they don't understand the risk of their own warranty is not plausible.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

CU was a public company for decades. They are now owned by very sophisticated and successful people. The notion that they don't understand the risk of their own warranty is not plausible.

According to their terms and conditions can't they just deactivate the cert # and tell the owner to pound sand?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

CU was a public company for decades. They are now owned by very sophisticated and successful people that have millions of dollars worth of altered cards in numeric slabs in their own personal collections The notion that they don't understand the risk of their own warranty is not plausible.

I fixed your post.

These guys don't even know that their own cards are doctored lol. You think they have their finger on the pulse of the extent to which the entire high end vintage market has been doctored?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I fixed your post.

These guys don't even know that their own cards are doctored lol. You think they have their finger on the pulse of the extent to which the entire high end vintage market has been doctored?

It is not just high end vintage that is at risk to being altered but any card in any grade where taking the time to fix it yields a justifiable profit to the fixer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I fixed your post.

These guys don't even know that their own cards are doctored lol. You think they have their finger on the pulse of the extent to which the entire high end vintage market has been doctored?

Yes, I think they know. How could they not? As you well know, it's a new world and many collectors don't really care. For 33 years they've controlled their warranty exposure, I see no reason that is going to change.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes, I think they know. How could they not? As you well know, it's a new world and many collectors don't really care. For 33 years they've controlled their warranty exposure, I see no reason that is going to change.

They've managed their warranty exposure by not honoring it in many cases and by being incompetent in others though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They've managed their warranty exposure by not honoring it in many cases and by being incompetent in others though.

Right, but the point is it's entirely within their control/discretion. "The graders stand behind the grade." Now what you gonna do, sue? Good luck with that. As the old intro to the Outer Limits went, we control the horizontal, we control the vertical.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They've managed their warranty exposure by not honoring it in many cases and by being incompetent in others though.

Their business model seems to be based on the age old strategem of fooling most of the people most of the time. Witness all the talk on this board about whether it's worthwhile (monetarily speaking) to submit/re-submit a card to PSA/SGC.