Which Jackie would you buy?

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ya, it's a $250k cap per card, but there's also a lifetime cap of $500k per individual. So you don't get many chances to cash in when something goes wrong if you're a high end collector. Some of these guys like Marshall Fogel, Ken Kendrick, and Brady Hill have millions of dollars worth of trimmed cards in their collections and they don't even know it. It's a significant risk to carry. Fogel's 52 Mantle is sheet cut.

100% agree. I honestly think over well 70% of high end pre-1970 cards are either trimmed or cleaned w/ who knows what chemicals. Back in the day, people soaked cards with all kinds of crap w/o knowing exactly the consequences. However, trimming is the #1 problem w/ vintage cuts.


So many older graded high end PSA cards are so obviously trimmed. If the owners of these took against PSA even if the max $ cap didn’t exist, their egos would be hurt w/ the reduced PSA set registry rankings.


E.g. I think the following card was trimmed. Might be wrong but don’t think I am.
Take this extremely high grade 1952 Topps Ed Mathews. Can’t believe this card passed grading even decades ago. Talk about a bad hair cut. Whoever this moron is, trimmed & destroyed an important card in the hobby. Everyone knows many 52 Topps have top borders that are slanted (that’s how the printer plate was made). So this person just trimmed the top to match the slanted border. Left side also looks short to me.

This card should have been left alone & still would have been a handsome card

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

100% agree. I honestly think over well 70% of high end pre-1970 cards are either trimmed or cleaned w/ who knows what chemicals. Back in the day, people soaked cards with all kinds of crap w/o knowing exactly the consequences. However, trimming is the #1 problem w/ vintage cuts.


So many older graded high end PSA cards are so obviously trimmed. If the owners of these took against PSA even if the max $ cap didn’t exist, their egos would be hurt w/ the reduced PSA set registry rankings.


E.g. I think the following card was trimmed. Might be wrong but don’t think I am.
Take this extremely high grade 1952 Topps Ed Mathews. Can’t believe this card passed grading even decades ago. Talk about a bad hair cut. Whoever this moron is, trimmed & destroyed an important card in the hobby. Everyone knows many 52 Topps have top borders that are slanted (that’s how the printer plate was made). So this person just trimmed the top to match the slanted border. Left side also looks short to me.

This card should have been left alone & still would have been a handsome card

It’s been deactivated from PSA certification

[Peter_Spaeth]

Travis -- basis for your claim about Fogel's Mantle?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Travis -- basis for your claim about Fogel's Mantle?

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...810A78DCB1264F

[uniship]

Back to the original posting - I think both cards are absolutely magnificent. Think about how hard it is for a card of that magnitude to survive 72 years remaining in such amazing condition. We all get so bogged down in debating and in comparing that we sometimes lose sight of just how amazing it is that cards like these can still exist today.

The PSA example AND the SGC example would each be a true highlight for almost any collection.

With that being said, I think the SGC example is superior.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by uniship

Back to the original posting - I think both cards are absolutely magnificent. Think about how hard it is for a card of that magnitude to survive 72 years remaining in such amazing condition. We all get so bogged down in debating and in comparing that we sometimes lose sight of just how amazing it is that cards like these can still exist today.

The PSA example AND the SGC example would each be a true highlight for almost any collection.

With that being said, I think the SGC example is superior.

The percentage of very high grade vintage cards that "survived in that condition" as opposed to having some help in getting them into those holders is very near zero. If that fact doesn't bother you, then by all means, buy what you love. But if that does bother you, you should reevaluate which cards you choose to buy.

[Balticfox]

This one:

[Leon]

To the original question, the SGC 8 is much stronger.
.

[scottglevy]

I like the SGC more by quite a wide margin. The centering is so much better. I do think that it’s also a decent choice to wait for a better overall copy - that you may be able to find in a lower than 8 grade as well.

[uniship]

And now, for the rest of the story.

The SGC 8 sold for $75,000
The PSA 8 sold for $72,000

I’ll be damned.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Travis -- basis for your claim about Fogel's Mantle?

I had a conversation with someone who claims to know the person that cut the sheet. This person would know too. I won't say his name, but everyone here would recognize it. The reason I believe him is because it also looks like a sheet-cut card. The edges and corners are not natural looking for a 52 Topps. They're way too perfect. And it's not small.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I had a conversation with someone who claims to know the person that cut the sheet. This person would know too. I won't say his name, but everyone here would recognize it. The reason I believe him is because it also looks like a sheet-cut card. The edges and corners are not natural looking for a 52 Topps. They're way too perfect. And it's not small.

When was this cutting allegedly done? If I recall the farthest back this card traces is to Mark Murphy, is that right?

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When was this cutting allegedly done? If I recall the farthest back this card traces is to Mark Murphy, is that right?

In the 1980s. I also heard rumors about Rosen finding ‘52 Topps High sheets & oversized cards. A number of dealers who are collecting them are also aware but probably won’t talk.

There’s a reason we can find at least one uncut sheet for pretty much every 50s Topps series (in general) except for the last two 52 Topps series. Note: We did have uncut Topps higher #’d series sheets brought to an early 80s National that is documented in a Beckett annual (will post pics later as I have it).

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can't tell if it's sheet cut.

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

It’s been deactivated from PSA certification

Interesting