What are the best vintage, investment-type players in your opinion?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

While racism was surely more prominent back then, I don't think it's necessary to describe the delta between his prices and other black stars of his day. As someone else pointed out earlier, Stan Musial and Ted Williams were every bit as good as Mantle, and they were white as well. But their prices are below even Mays and Aaron. I think the Yankees factor and World Series performances are sufficient to explain the delta. That and he was well-liked in general. I suppose you could argue that a black athlete may not have had access to the same media privileges that Mantle was given, so in that way it was more challenging for them to build up a fan base, and that by extension having that larger fan base is what allowed his legacy to flourish as well as it has? I don't know. But that feels like a stretch to me. Jackie Robinson and Willie Mays both had plenty of access to the media as well.

IMO it's one of many factors, not the sole determinant. But my best guess would be that if Mantle had been Black, it would not have turned out the same for him in the context of his time.

[BioCRN]

Nuances of race and his peers aside, was there anyone with a fist full of cash that Mantle would say "no" to when it came time to ask him to pitch a product?

Dude had crazy mainstream coverage pushing a wide variety of everything.

Bread, photo film, cigarettes, quitting smoking programs, hotdogs, watches, etc etc...beer, obviously...

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IMO it's one of many factors, not the sole determinant. But my best guess would be that if Mantle had been Black, it would not have turned out the same for him in the context of his time.

I think it's safe to say, baseball card collectors in today's world care nothing about the color of ones skin.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I think it's safe to say, baseball card collectors in today's world care nothing about the color of ones skin.

I agree, and of course that is as it should be, but we are now taking as a given Mantle's status as the most iconic post-war player, maybe ever, which to some extent has been handed down. So I don't think we're saying different things. If the hobby collectively had a completely clean slate to write on, does it still really rank Mantle above (far above) everyone else?

I grew up in the 60s. It was a given that Mantle was godlike. My friends and I loved Mays too, but it wasn't the same. You opened packs wanting Mantle above everyone else. To a large extent that engrained thinking lives on.

[Kutcher55]

Yastrzemski.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I agree, and of course that is as it should be, but we are now taking as a given Mantle's status as the most iconic post-war player, maybe ever, which to some extent has been handed down. So I don't think we're saying different things. If the hobby collectively had a completely clean slate to write on, does it still really rank Mantle above (far above) everyone else?

I grew up in the 60s. It was a given that Mantle was godlike. To a large extent that engrained thinking lives on.

I'm a West Coast guy, to me Willie Mays is the greatest post war player and along with Cobb is arguably the GOAT. That's why I own a Mays rookie and not a Mantle rookie, I'll buy a 51B Mantle at some point but it's pretty far down the list. But that has nothing to do with ones skin pigment.

Personally, I think the race argument is tired and outdated.

If somebody likes Mantle more than me, great, I'm a Mays guy. Who cares what the color of their skin was when it comes to collecting baseball cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I'm a West Coast guy, to me Willie Mays is the greatest post war player and along with Cobb is arguably the GOAT. That's why I own a Mays rookie and not a Mantle rookie, I'll buy a 51B Mantle at some point but it's pretty far down the list. But that has nothing to do with ones skin pigment.

Personally, I think the race argument is tired and outdated.

If somebody likes Mantle more than me, great, I'm a Mays guy. Who cares what the color of their skin was when it comes to collecting baseball cards.

Again, you're right now, but my point is that there is a historical aspect to Mantle's transcendence that lives on today and as much as we would like to pretend race was just as irrelevant back then, I don't think it was. And again, I am not saying the only reason people elevated Mantle above everyone else is that he's white, not at all.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Again, you're right now, but my point is that there is a historical aspect to Mantle's transcendence that lives on today and as much as we would like to pretend race was just as irrelevant back then, I don't think it was. And again, I am not saying the only reason people elevated Mantle above everyone else is that he's white, not at all.

Race was relevant back then, it's not now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Race was relevant back then, it's not now.

You're missing my point entirely. It's OK maybe I am not communicating it.