First-ever SGC 10 Wilt Chamberlain Rookie Graded

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It's not size that bothers me. It's the "bat ear" in the upper right. While not every trimmed card exhibits the dreaded curved corner I've yet to see a factory cut card with one.

Yes, I know what you mean. But with this set in particular (and this is the only set I'm aware of where this is true), the bat-eared cuts like this are actually quite common. I've studied this set intensely. It took me years to build out the full set with all centered copies. I stared at pretty much every 1961 Fleer card that hit eBay or auction houses for many years. They're always the first thing I search, as it's my absolute favorite set in the hobby. And I've had multiple sets go through my hands. There are just way too many cards cut like this for it not to have been a factory issue. It's the most poorly cut set in the entire hobby, that I'm aware of. I think it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference between a factory-cut card and even one that was poorly trimmed, let alone "properly" trimmed (assuming the edge in question was on the top or the bottom) if looking at scans online.

Start looking closely at the cuts on some random commons and make mental notes. You'll see what I mean if you look into it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Yes, I know what you mean. But with this set in particular (and this is the only set I'm aware of where this is true), the bat-eared cuts like this are actually quite common. I've studied this set intensely. It took me years to build out the full set with all centered copies. I stared at pretty much every 1961 Fleer card that hit eBay or auction houses for many years. They're always the first thing I search, as it's my absolute favorite set in the hobby. And I've had multiple sets go through my hands. There are just way too many cards cut like this for it not to have been a factory issue. It's the most poorly cut set in the entire hobby, that I'm aware of. I think it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference between a factory-cut card and even one that was poorly trimmed, let alone "properly" trimmed (assuming the edge in question was on the top or the bottom) if looking at scans online.

Start looking closely at the cuts on some random commons and make mental notes. You'll see what I mean if you look into it.

Hmmm. I get how sloppy quality control would result in size issues or angled cuts. Not sure I can visualize how factory sloppiness would produce a bat ear, the way trimming can of course. Surely you can post some examples of this common phenomenon?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Hmmm. I get how sloppy quality control would result in size issues or angled cuts. Not sure I can visualize how factory sloppiness would produce a bat ear, the way trimming can of course. Surely you can post some examples of this common phenomenon?

I have had my fair share of 61 Fleers too. I have seen legit factory cuts that leave the card too small to holder and seen many that are cut on an angle or printed on an angle. Never seen a 61 Fleer or any other card with a legit factory cut (with the card sizing or not) with a bat ear appearance on any corner. I would love to see examples and since they are common, it should be no problem. Thanks in advance!

[raulus]

I thought we agreed that the appropriate terminology was “telltale tit”? Why are people suddenly using “bat ear”??!!

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Hmmm. I get how sloppy quality control would result in size issues or angled cuts. Not sure I can visualize how factory sloppiness would produce a bat ear, the way trimming can of course. Surely you can post some examples of this common phenomenon?

I don't have scans of the bad ones, but even in my heavily cherry-picked set I have a few commons with bat ear cuts or upward sloping cuts. Here are a handful of them. And again, these are the best of the best copies I've found over the years. You could browse ebay right now and easily find numerous copies with slanted bat-ear cuts.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I stared at pretty much every 1961 Fleer card that hit eBay or auction houses for many years.

Except my centered Jerry West :P

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Except my centered Jerry West :P

I actually did see it. Was a beauty. But I have 3 centered Wests now.

[Snowman]

Here are a few more from just the first page of ebay results

Note that a lot of these if you look closely aren't just slanted or diagonal cuts. They're sloped upward or downward toward the corner.

[Lorewalker]

I see the same kind of bat ear on the upper right corners of the Baylor and the Shue as is present on the PSA 10 Wilt. Appreciate your posting them, Travis. I stand corrected.

[3-2-count]

If one wanted to perform a thorough search of scans on cards from the 61 Fleer BB set they would find the cut that Travis describes on many examples. He is correct!

[Republicaninmass]

So there IS a psa 10?

Makes the sale even more baffling

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I see the same kind of bat ear on the upper right corners of the Baylor and the Shue as is present on the PSA 10 Wilt. Appreciate your posting them, Travis. I stand corrected.

To clarify, I'm not saying that the Wilt was definitely *not* trimmed, rather I'm just saying that with this set in particular there are a lot of factory cuts just like that, so it's not possible to distinguish a trimmed copy from a factory cut the same way we would with other sets.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

To clarify, I'm not saying that the Wilt was definitely *not* trimmed, rather I'm just saying that with this set in particular there are a lot of factory cuts just like that, so it's not possible to distinguish a trimmed copy from a factory cut the same way we would with other sets.

I get it. I am not saying it is not trimmed either but your post made me at least consider that it might not be. Appreciate the education.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Yes, I know what you mean. But with this set in particular (and this is the only set I'm aware of where this is true), the bat-eared cuts like this are actually quite common. I've studied this set intensely. It took me years to build out the full set with all centered copies. I stared at pretty much every 1961 Fleer card that hit eBay or auction houses for many years. They're always the first thing I search, as it's my absolute favorite set in the hobby. And I've had multiple sets go through my hands. There are just way too many cards cut like this for it not to have been a factory issue. It's the most poorly cut set in the entire hobby, that I'm aware of. I think it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference between a factory-cut card and even one that was poorly trimmed, let alone "properly" trimmed (assuming the edge in question was on the top or the bottom) if looking at scans online.

Start looking closely at the cuts on some random commons and make mental notes. You'll see what I mean if you look into it.

Probably not as many as you but I've certainly handled a lot of them including a lot of high grade raw examples that I submitted for consignors (especially the one collection that had basically three of everything) and I don't recall seeing bat-eared corners. Lots of size variations, crappy cuts etc. but not curved corners.