Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED

Carter08 · #1 08-22-2024, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Grantland Rice over here waxing poetically on the guy that�a a two time MVP, on pace for the first 50/50 season in MLB history, made 80 starts over the previous three seasons with a sub 3.00 era, and is recovering from a torn UCL during said first 50/50 season. Truly marvelous.

It�s really something to behold. �But he doesn�t field.� I don�t know - just maybe the team that saw fit to make him the highest paid player of all time due to his pretty unprecedented hitting and pitching abilities decided to take advantage of the DH to keep him doing those things better than anyone else. Not a dumb move.

Exhibitman · #2 08-22-2024, 04:10 PM

Both Judge and Ohtani are simply marvelous this year but as Sparky Anderson said after the 1976 WS when someone compared Thurman Munson to Johnny Bench:

"Munson is an outstanding player and he would hit.300 in the National League, but don’t ever embarrass anybody by comparing him to Johnny Bench."

Same for Ruth; don't embarrass Judge and Ohtani by comparing them to Ruth. Judge doesn't compare because he can't pitch. Ohtani can pitch but he's 38-19 with a 3.01 ERA and a lifetime batting average of .277 with 2900 ABs. OPS+ .989. Ruth went 94-46 with a 2.28 ERA, hit .342 and over 8900+ ABs, has a career OPS+ of 1.164. He had ten years with WAR above 10; Ohtani has had zero (best was 9.9). Judge and Ohtani are fantastic and great drawing cards and guys too (as far as we know) but comparing them to Ruth just isn't fair to them.

Oh, and a vintage card:

Carter08 · #3 08-22-2024, 04:15 PM

I don�t know too many people, if anyone, arguing that Ohtani is better than Ruth. I think many people would say he�s the best pitching and hitting phenom to play the game since Ruth. Hardly seems like a comparison that should offend even the staunchest supporter of pre-segregation baseball.

SyrNy1960 · #4 08-22-2024, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

I think many people would say he�s the best pitching and hitting phenom to play the game since Ruth.

Well said!

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #5 08-22-2024, 05:44 PM

I feel like we could have had the opportunity to see several more over the last century, but when do any kids get trained for such a future? It's just not done, is it? It's one or the other.

packs · #6 08-22-2024, 05:50 PM

I don't think two way players are that rare as you're developing in middle school and high school. I knew lots of kids who pitched once a week and played the field the rest of it. It's the combination of being major league caliber at both skills that weeds them out. If you have a real future as a hitter, you might give up your fledging career as a mediocre pitcher.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 08-22-2024, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think two way players are that rare as you're developing in middle school and high school. I knew lots of kids who pitched once a week and played the field the rest of it. It's the combination of being major league caliber at both skills that weeds them out. If you have a real future as a hitter, you might give up your fledging career as a mediocre pitcher.

Right. I think it's pretty common up through high school for a star pitcher to also be the team's best hitter, being the best athlete. Not much incentive to pursue both beyond that as it's likely a career shortening move and the odds of being better than average at both at that level must be astonishingly low.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #8 08-22-2024, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think two way players are that rare as you're developing in middle school and high school. I knew lots of kids who pitched once a week and played the field the rest of it. It's the combination of being major league caliber at both skills that weeds them out. If you have a real future as a hitter, you might give up your fledging career as a mediocre pitcher.

Yes, I'd agree, but I also wonder if there are more potential two-way kids out there, but their coach feels it a better idea for them to stick to their forte? For example, why risk injury to one part of the body as a pitcher when the kid is fine in the field and at the plate? Or vice versa. Because two-way players have classically not been nurtured beyond their younger days, the trend continues? Just some honest thoughts about the subject.

Also, with Ohtani now here, you know the number of youngsters wanting to emulate him has just exploded. Perhaps there may be a coach or three out there more willing to give it a shot. I'm guessing so.

BioCRN · #9 08-22-2024, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I feel like we could have had the opportunity to see several more over the last century, but when do any kids get trained for such a future? It's just not done, is it? It's one or the other.

There are a ton of guys who went failed-pitcher to hitter or failed-hitter to pitcher.

I remember seeing Josh Hamilton hit mid-90s in highschool off the mound. If he couldn't hit he would have probably been a highly drafted pitcher.

Recently, Bryce Eldridge (SF, 2023) could have been a pitcher or hitter, SF chose hitter. Nolan McLean (NYM, 2023) is a 2-way player, but his hitting is worse than his pitching and will probably eventually just be a pitcher.

More players are getting the chance to be 2-way, but none are proving themselves past the low minors or even pre-assigned FLA/ARZ camps.

drcy · #10 08-22-2024, 06:23 PM

Just remember that Bob Uecker was once thought to be the next Babe Ruth.

doug.goodman · #11 08-24-2024, 11:53 PM

It's been awhile since there was a card in this thread, here are a few

frankbmd · #12 08-25-2024, 08:07 AM

I'm perfectly willing to concede the 20th century to Ruth, but so far I think Ohtani will be hard to beat in the 21st century. Comparing today's game with 1924 is more difficult than the most biased Ruthies and/or Ohtanies are willing to admit.

packs · #13 08-25-2024, 09:04 AM

I don�t think you�ll lose money buying Ohtani cards but I wouldn�t say he�s undervalued in the Ernie Banks sense.

I think you�d do well buying Aaron Judge too. It�s like watching an authentic Bonds up there.

SyrNy1960 · #14 08-25-2024, 01:01 PM

Judge is freaking amazing! HR#50

Snowman · #15 08-25-2024, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I don’t think you’ll lose money buying Ohtani cards but I wouldn’t say he’s undervalued in the Ernie Banks sense.

I think you’d do well buying Aaron Judge too. It’s like watching an authentic Bonds up there.

There's a pretty wide gap between what Judge is doing and what Bonds did.

GasHouseGang · #16 08-25-2024, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

It's been awhile since there was a card in this thread, here are a few

I sure like that Pujols card you slipped in there!

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