Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED

[BigfootIsReal]

IF the Dodgers allow Ohtani to pitch again, I'll take Ohtani over Judge every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[packs]

As a complete player sure but my comment was in reference to who the best hitter in baseball is. I believe it is Judge.

Soto put up a 200 OPS+ in 2020 during a short season. I think you have to go all the way back to Frank Thomas in 1994 to find the last 200 OPS+ season and that was still a strike shortened season.

I am purposely excluding Bonds / McGwire / Sosa for reasons I think are clear.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by packs

As a complete player sure but my comment was in reference to who the best hitter in baseball is. I believe it is Judge.

Soto put up a 200 OPS+ in 2020 during a short season. I think you have to go all the way back to Frank Thomas in 1994 to find the last 200 OPS+ season and that was still a strike shortened season.

I am purposely excluding Bonds / McGwire / Sosa for reasons I think are clear.

Bagwell too. Bagwell was 213, Thomas was 212. Soto was 217. The last time someone was that good was Ted Williams (233) and Mickey Mantle (221) in 1957.

[packs]

Ah, I didn't see Bagwell had also done it in the 1994 strike season.

I think that demonstrates just how good Judge is. This will be his second 200 OPS+ season.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

IF the Dodgers allow Ohtani to pitch again, I'll take Ohtani over Judge every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

You can have him! I'll take the judge!

[BigfootIsReal]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

You can have him! I'll take the judge!

World Series

Ohtani vs Judge

Ten AB's and I say Judge is good for a bloop single

[BioCRN]

Whether he's the best or not, if Ohtani isn't in your top-5 hitters in all of baseball anywhere on the planet I don't know what to say.

MVP caliber hitter. CY caliber pitcher. Unless one wants to pick on Ohtani's ability to pitch 200-ish IP as a pitcher, both stand strong.

Guy is about to hit 40+ homers for the 3rd time in 4 years. He's going to join the 40-40 club. He's recovering from Tommy John surgery while doing it. wtf...

3.01 ERA, 1.08 WHIP over 481.2ip

It's easy to ignore his pitching based on injury, but based on results when healthy it isn't.

His biggest knock is he doesn't play the field and if he did, it would most likely be below average.

Long story short...I've never seen anyone like him in my lifetime with skills this elevated and I'm not sure anyone else here has, either.

He's not a rare player, he's not a generational player, he's only being compared to Ruth because who else are you going to compare a guy with his skill set to that played in 1900+? He's a very unique player.

[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Whether he's the best or not, if Ohtani isn't in your top-5 hitters in all of baseball anywhere on the planet I don't know what to say.

MVP caliber hitter. CY caliber pitcher. Unless one wants to pick on Ohtani's ability to pitch 200-ish IP as a pitcher, both stand strong.

Guy is about to hit 40+ homers for the 3rd time in 4 years. He's going to join the 40-40 club. He's recovering from Tommy John surgery while doing it. wtf...

3.01 ERA, 1.08 WHIP over 481.2ip

It's easy to ignore his pitching based on injury, but based on results when healthy it isn't.

His biggest knock is he doesn't play the field and if he did, it would most likely be below average.

Long story short...I've never seen anyone like him in my lifetime with skills this elevated and I'm not sure anyone else here has, either.

He's not a rare player, he's not a generational player, he's only being compared to Ruth because who else are you going to compare a guy with his skill set to that played in 1900+? He's a very unique player.

yup...

Judge isnt even a top 5 yankee of all time ( yet) and people comparing him to what Ohtani has done on Mound and Batters box ( and now on base )...

its pure stupidity, like saying Montana was better than Brady...

STOP..lol

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jboosted92

yup...

Judge isnt even a top 5 yankee of all time ( yet) and people comparing him to what Ohtani has done on Mound and Batters box ( and now on base )...

its pure stupidity, like saying Montana was better than Brady...

STOP..lol

WAR
Judge - 51.2
Ohtani - 42.5

They are both incredibly good, but the dichotomy where one must be put down to lift the other one doesn't make much sense to me. Who knows where they will end up, but both are rare talents who are delivering astounding performances to enjoy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

WAR
Judge - 51.2
Ohtani - 42.5

They are both incredibly good, but the dichotomy where one must be put down to lift the other one doesn't make much sense to me. Who knows where they will end up, but both are rare talents who are delivering astounding performances to enjoy.

And 15 of that 42 is pitching, meaning his batting WAR is 27.5. Not sure why it isn't higher? But it's striking. Barely more than half of Judge's.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Whether he's the best or not, if Ohtani isn't in your top-5 hitters in all of baseball anywhere on the planet I don't know what to say.

MVP caliber hitter. CY caliber pitcher. Unless one wants to pick on Ohtani's ability to pitch 200-ish IP as a pitcher, both stand strong.

Guy is about to hit 40+ homers for the 3rd time in 4 years. He's going to join the 40-40 club. He's recovering from Tommy John surgery while doing it. wtf...

3.01 ERA, 1.08 WHIP over 481.2ip

It's easy to ignore his pitching based on injury, but based on results when healthy it isn't.

His biggest knock is he doesn't play the field and if he did, it would most likely be below average.

Long story short...I've never seen anyone like him in my lifetime with skills this elevated and I'm not sure anyone else here has, either.

He's not a rare player, he's not a generational player, he's only being compared to Ruth because who else are you going to compare a guy with his skill set to that played in 1900+? He's a very unique player.

All very nice but entirely irrelevant. The question is about the pricing of his card. And even were I to concede the point that a player's card prices should reflect that player's relative performance on the field (which is a debateable assumption), Ohtani is not 10x or 100x better than the average Dodger. Ask any of his former teammates.

[insidethewrapper]

Marcell Ozuna may win the NL Triple Crown this year and nobody seems to care. Certain players are always hyped the most by the press.

[packs]

True. Nobody really batted an eye last year when Yandy Diaz hit 330 and led the AL either.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Marcell Ozuna may win the NL Triple Crown this year and nobody seems to care. Certain players are always hyped the most by the press.

Ozuna is fantastic. He’s not Ohtani. WAR has Ohtani 1, 2, and then 1 in all of MLB the past three years. Fine for someone to think Judge is better but if anyone argues Ohtani has not been amazing they are treading into odd territory.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Marcell Ozuna may win the NL Triple Crown this year and nobody seems to care. Certain players are always hyped the most by the press.

A few factors at play here:

1) Ozuna had just just two seasons with an OPS above .800 in his 20s, and one was during the short 2020 season.

2) He's not a good fielder, so all of his value comes from his bat.

3) He was terrible in 2021 and 2022. If this represents a breakout year, it will come at age 33.

Collectors just don't get excited about guys like that. Baseball Reference compares Ozuna's career stats to the likes of Carl Everett, Geoff Jenkins, Jason Bay, Vernon Wells, and Frank Thomas (no, not that Frank Thomas... the other one).

[BigfootIsReal]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

A few factors at play here:

1) Ozuna had just just two seasons with an OPS above .800 in his 20s, and one was during the short 2020 season.

2) He's not a good fielder, so all of his value comes from his bat.

3) He was terrible in 2021 and 2022. If this represents a breakout year, it will come at age 33.

Collectors just don't get excited about guys like that. Baseball Reference compares Ozuna's career stats to the likes of Carl Everett, Geoff Jenkins, Jason Bay, Vernon Wells, and Frank Thomas (no, not that Frank Thomas... the other one).

Don't forget Chuck Knoblauch and Danny Heep

[Snowman]

It's pretty difficult to overrate the greatest talent that the game has ever seen.

[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It's pretty difficult to overrate the greatest talent that the game has ever seen.

Thank you.

Exactly