Latest Pickups

[G1911]

Originally Posted by butcher354435

Greg, I believe the Diamond D stamp is original. When an N386(Boxer or actress) has an advertisement on front(Echo for your copy) I have never seen one without the Diamond D stamp. When they don't have an advertisement on front they always have the Spaulding & Merrick writing on the reverse. I could be wrong but I haven't seen an example fit outside of what I listed above but you are much better than I am at this investigative stuff.

Attached is an example of the pattern with multiple sub issues:

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...7720319623563/

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...77720319623563

Wow that is a beautiful array, you always make the sets I consider pretty tough look easy!


I thought the stamp was an original production facility mark for a long time, as I still haven't seen a card sans the stamp. I assumed that made it pretty cut and dry and obvious, if it is on every card then that stamp must be from the production process.

What has led me to question this is how some of the stamps are placed. I have seen a few Smoke Echo actresses with the stamp placed over areas of paper loss on the back. Attached is an example of this (not my card, for disclosure). The area is paper loss - we can see the back stock pulling up where the paper loss ends in a few spots, typically evidence paper loss occurred during a forceful removal from a scrapbook or similar - but the stamp is placed over it. The stamp is fairly light on some cards, often a partial diamond as your first Kilrain shows, and I think has faded over time a bit on some, which this card also shows. There are fainter hints of the stamp on the creamy stock too, but most of it is centered in the paper loss, where it is a fairly bright impression.

This seems to leave conflicting evidence. If every card has the stamp, which seems to be the case, that strongly implies it was part of production. On the other hand, this card was stamped after it was glued into a scrapbook or something else and then pulled out of it, which would be post-production at some significant remove.

This set had a prize winning card for the set offer (certainly #20, the prize winner in the animals series, and the only card # here that is unknown to us today), but it doesn't make any sense that every surviving card was from a set turned in as a prize winner and that this stamp is a sort of cancellation mark for turned in cards. It's possible it could be post-production if all the cards of this variety known today came from one secondary source, a person who marked them with a stamp, but there is nothing to support that. I really don't know what to make of it, though I have come to think that it could not possibly be pre-production because if it was, a card with paper loss from being affixed to a scrapbook or similar would logically interrupt the stamp.

There are so many fun little mysteries about these cards for us to figure out still.

[butcher354435]

Just wondering if that paper lose was an issue the paper stock had pre-production. Have you ever seen a blank back without the Diamond D stamp? Btw, when I did some research many years ago I found Diamond was a large match mnfg at the time these cards would have been produced. I don't believe I ever found the exact stamp on other material but if I recall I found other artifacts with very similar stamps. Unfortunately I lost all of my research when one of my computer hard drives crashed...

[G1911]

Originally Posted by butcher354435

Just wondering if that paper lose was an issue the paper stock had pre-production. Have you ever seen a blank back without the Diamond D stamp? Btw, when I did some research many years ago I found Diamond was a large match mnfg at the time these cards would have been produced. I don't believe I ever found the exact stamp on other material but if I recall I found other artifacts with very similar stamps. Unfortunately I lost all of my research when one of my computer hard drives crashed...

It is possible the sheet was affixed to something and then pulled off and cut up, but I think unlikely. The shaping and pulling of the paper loss suggests to me affixture of the card to something else, and a hasty removal.

I have never seen one without the Diamond D stamp. I imagine one will probably be shown eventually where it has faded off or isn't visible, as many of the cards are very poorly stamped with only like 20% of the stamp present (like your Kilrain) or are very light. However the stamp was done, the person or machine doing it was not very consistent or diligent about it.

I have not succeeded in finding any information of what the stamp might refer too. It seems a strange marking on its face to me, usually backstamps are clearly related to production information (like the packer numbers of T107) or are from a retailer/issuer for a set with multiple issuers in lieu of printing the information, or a cancellation mark for a redemption set.

I looked through old papers, the journals, invoice records (there are ton of Spaulding & Merrick invoices and orders on the tobacco market - most of which have purple ink used to record transactions, but then again purple or black were the standard stamp color in the late nineteenth century). I have not found any record of a 'diamond' product brand or line, or any company document bearing this mark, or the use of "D" to designate something. Echo was distributed in 16 oz. tins and in foil packages, neither of which would seem logical to be designated as a "D" in company shorthand.

Spaulding & Merrick operated their own printing press, in the late 1870's at least, on which they made their own packaging materials. It is possible the cards, unlike most N cards, were produced by themselves instead of a contracted lithography firm and were an entirely in house affair. I have not found letters being used to designate the different S&M buildings in Chicago though, if it was some kind of internal routing code for the movement of goods.

[Exhibitman]

Heckuva card there. Sorry for radio silence; I got trapped on the return flight from hell. Was supposed to be home Sunday afternoon, finally made it in Monday evening. 'Slept' in the Newark airport Sunday night. Not an experience I can recommend to other travelers. Total of 27 hours from NY to LA has to be some kind of record.

I have something more on the "D" in my archives; I will have a look. Haven't forgotten your card, either, Greg, just trying to pick up the pieces from my lost day.

[G1911]

The good news is Ty Cobb, the puncher, costs a lot less than Ty Cobb the batsman . That you to Adam for finding this one into my little collection. T225 is a ton of fun, only need a Kid Beebe to finish my set of white borders here. Have 154/250 of the grey border master so plenty to knock out still, 1 at a time. Pretty much my last T card set for which much progress can be made. Would be nice to pick up the poster one day to go with it and present a 'full' collection of this fun little series that was the first chronologically of the boxing T cards.

[Exhibitman]

1887 Bendigo Trade Card. He has no known career-issued cards, and this trade card is the only the second example of this card I've seen. It is his only 19th century card as far as I know.



In hand I was quite surprised by how large it is, practically the size of a cabinet card.

[G1911]

A pair of Queens to add to the set. These qualify as good image quality for this series.