Card Interest Down? Not at the National.

[Exhibitman]

Don, it looks really good from the outside but the numbers are not that good in reality, assuming one operates above-board--not cheating on income taxes, reporting sales for sales taxes, etc. Cost of inventory, cost of sales, sales taxes, and income taxes all take quite a bite out of my gross profit. I know a lot of dealers who are "doing great!" but have only a vague grasp of their actual net profit. I also would not assume appreciation of inventory beyond the rate of inflation. Overall trends can be deceiving. Lots of "-" signs over the last year. Sitting on inventory that is declining in value really sucks; I try to cash out my run of the mill purchases quickly so I don't get stuck.

Jim, I totally get the dime box stuff. Hell, my setups at most shows are entirely picker boxes, though my floor is a buck. I think that most collectors want to collect, and if they are a bit strapped, they can still have fun for a few bucks at a cheap pickers' table.

[Leon]

After selling my collection the first time, I don't worry about the value (though I still have quite a bit in it, relatively speaking) of it like I used to.
A few good purchases can make up for a lot of not-so-good ones. Card interest is up but many commodity type cards, even of Cobb and Ruth, are down.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Don, it looks really good from the outside but the numbers are not that good in reality, assuming one operates above-board--not cheating on income taxes, reporting sales for sales taxes, etc. Cost of inventory, cost of sales, sales taxes, and income taxes all take quite a bite out of my gross profit. I know a lot of dealers who are "doing great!" but have only a vague grasp of their actual net profit. I also would not assume appreciation of inventory beyond the rate of inflation. Overall trends can be deceiving. Lots of "-" signs over the last year. Sitting on inventory that is declining in value really sucks; I try to cash out my run of the mill purchases quickly so I don't get stuck.

Jim, I totally get the dime box stuff. Hell, my setups at most shows are entirely picker boxes, though my floor is a buck. I think that most collectors want to collect, and if they are a bit strapped, they can still have fun for a few bucks at a cheap pickers' table.

[Yoda]

Grading has changed the whole matrix of how the hobby's economics functioned in the past.

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Grading has changed the whole matrix of how the hobby's economics functioned in the past.

I recall a mid 1990s Beckett article about PSA changing the hobby dynamics and valuation, wow was it an undersell!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

I recall a mid 1990s Beckett article about PSA changing the hobby dynamics and valuation, wow was it an undersell!

There was fierce opposition at first from a who's who of major players, dealers, collectors, and AHs alike. Then when the tide began to turn about 25 years ago, it seemed like the entire hobby for several years was driven by buying raw to submit and collectors getting their collections graded to cash in on the higher prices graded cards were getting. Eventually, you couldn't hardly sell a non-graded card of any consequence. Same with autographs.

[BigfootIsReal]

If card "interest is up" why do prices continue to crumble?

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

If card "interest is up" why do prices continue to crumble?

Crumble is a bit dramatic. It's not 2021/2022 anymore, but before the "COVID bump" era of the hobby things were rather flat for well over a decade.

We're off-peak, but there's still an elevated interest in the hobby and plenty of money flowing through it.

At the very least the current "new normal" is searching for a floor that's a still a significant boost over pre-2019 prices.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

If card "interest is up" why do prices continue to crumble?

If they were crumbling I’d have finished my Goudey Ruth run.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

If card "interest is up" why do prices continue to crumble?

On the low grade/less desirable stuff, sure.

On the good stuff? Negative.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Grading has changed the whole matrix of how the hobby's economics functioned in the past.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Leon

After selling my collection the first time, I don't worry about the value (though I still have quite a bit in it, relatively speaking) of it like I used to.

Must be a nice place to be...

Originally Posted by Leon

A few good purchases can make up for a lot of not-so-good ones. Card interest is up but many commodity type cards, even of Cobb and Ruth, are down.

That is so true. And in the retelling, the bad deals tend to get fuzzed out by the shine of the good ones. I can't recall anyone bragging at the hotel bar about the crappy judgment he showed overpaying for something.

[HOF_Forever]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Don, it looks really good from the outside but the numbers are not that good in reality, assuming one operates above-board--not cheating on income taxes, reporting sales for sales taxes, etc. Cost of inventory, cost of sales, sales taxes, and income taxes all take quite a bite out of my gross profit. I know a lot of dealers who are "doing great!" but have only a vague grasp of their actual net profit. I also would not assume appreciation of inventory beyond the rate of inflation. Overall trends can be deceiving. Lots of "-" signs over the last year. Sitting on inventory that is declining in value really sucks; I try to cash out my run of the mill purchases quickly so I don't get stuck.

Jim, I totally get the dime box stuff. Hell, my setups at most shows are entirely picker boxes, though my floor is a buck. I think that most collectors want to collect, and if they are a bit strapped, they can still have fun for a few bucks at a cheap pickers' table.

I've often wondered how many dealers accurately track things like COGS, net sales, expenses, and inventory to get a truly accurate financial picture. Anecdotally I'd guess the number is pretty low but I've never been on that side of the table.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by HOF_Forever

I've often wondered how many dealers accurately track things like COGS, net sales, expenses, and inventory to get a truly accurate financial picture. Anecdotally I'd guess the number is pretty low but I've never been on that side of the table.

Greg, those dealers who actually report their sales activity for income tax purposes do this when they prepare (or have their tax accountants prepare) their Schedule Cs to their Form 1040s.

[HOF_Forever]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Greg, those dealers who actually report their sales activity for income tax purposes do this when they prepare (or have their tax accountants prepare) their Schedule Cs to their Form 1040s.

Yep, I understand the tax situation. I just wonder how many people there are who's accuracy would withstand an audit . It was clear when walking the show who would stop after a transaction and take notes on paper or digitally and who moved from transaction to transaction way too fast to record anything.

This was more of a random musing than anything and is OT to this thread so I won't bog the thread down with it moving forward.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by HOF_Forever

I've often wondered how many dealers accurately track things like COGS, net sales, expenses, and inventory to get a truly accurate financial picture. Anecdotally I'd guess the number is pretty low but I've never been on that side of the table.

I suspect there's an almost direct proportion between how big or small a dealer is to how much of their activity gets reported to the tax people. Big guys with sizeable bank accounts, etc., will get audited, and they'd better have some decent records of income, expenses, inventory, et al. Little guys, part-time guys, not so much.

[Spike]

Wrote up my Cleveland National thoughts, photos, and advice for next time, should NSCC return there. Did I miss any of the VIP benefits? :-)

https://www.number5typecollection.co...ow-report.html