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  #1  
Old 07-23-2024, 08:16 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
Beltre never felt like a hall of famer in real time to me either. This is why I to use the math, because it is objective and my perceptions and feelings are very much not.

Beltre is clearly well over the HOF line, he just had a weird career structured to feel like it was less valuable than it was. A league average bat and great defense for his first five years (97 OPS+), a monster year in 2003, then off to Seattle where he was a league average bat (101 OPS+) again for five years. His age 31 through 38 seasons are where he finally racked up offensive value consistently. The first year or two it felt like a fluke again like his 2003 season, and then it felt like it was too late in his career for the blossoming to get him over the line.

Clayon Kershaw has a higher ERA+ than any other pitcher in major league history who threw more than 1,5000 innings. If he is not A HOFer I genuinely cannot think of anyone who is deserving.
Look at the first two home stadiums he played in and then the last two he played in and things get a lot clearer. LA and Seattle were big pitchers parks at those times. Boston and Texas are massive hitters parks.
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2024, 09:13 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
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Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Look at the first two home stadiums he played in and then the last two he played in and things get a lot clearer. LA and Seattle were big pitchers parks at those times. Boston and Texas are massive hitters parks.
Hence the use of the parka adjusted OPS+. Adjusting for park, Beltre was still right at league average. There is no mathematical debate about that fact.
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Old 07-24-2024, 09:58 AM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
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Beltre did fit a lot of "storylines" into his, err...storied career.

Not many guys can claim to be all of:
  • Top prospect
  • Young star
  • Disappointment
  • Breakout star (48 HR year)
  • Big FA signing (SEA)
  • Reclamation project (BOS)
  • Big FA signing (TEX)
  • Superstar
  • Sure thing future Hall of Famer
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Last edited by Mike D.; 07-24-2024 at 09:58 AM.
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