Pre-War Players Who Were Incredible Athletes - Non-HOFers

[packs]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I call BS since that is over 3 seconds faster than the stated record.

Basically you're saying that Bell could run 360 feet from a standing start around corners in the same time Usain Bolt could run 328 feet out of blocks in a straight line.

In The Glory of Their Times Hans Lobert claims he was asked to race a horse around the bases and led the entire way until the rider got into his path and he had to slow down or else be run over.

Who knows.

[z28jd]

When I wrote a biography about Dots Miller, I saw a lot of local praise calling him a superstar soccer player. He owned a bowling alley and was consistently the best one there (better than my great-grandfather according to the scores!). He won plenty of tournaments during the baseball off-season. He also won a fishing tournament if that helps his case. The Pirates played some basketball during the very early parts of one Spring Training and he was singled out for his play. That was besides being called the best utility player by multiple sources for his ability to play anywhere and excel in all aspects of the game.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

In The Glory of Their Times Hans Lobert claims he was asked to race a horse around the bases and led the entire way until the rider got into his path and he had to slow down or else be run over.

Who knows.

Horse can't corner those 90 degree corners. If you had to stay in the base paths I could probably beat a formula one car, that doesn't make me faster.

Also your statement makes no sense, if he was in the lead how could the rider get into his path???

[benchod]

This man was an incredible athlete and underappreciated in the US
Played baseball for the Toronto team that won the International league in 1926
Played football for the Toronto Argonauts and won the Grey Cup
He won two Stanley Cups in the NHL playing for the Blackhawks and Montreal Maroons
He won wrestling ,boxing, and lacrosse championships
Member of the NHL Hockey Hall of fame, Canadian football HOF, and Canadian lacrosse HOF

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Horse can't corner those 90 degree corners. If you had to stay in the base paths I could probably beat a formula one car, that doesn't make me faster.

Also your statement makes no sense, if he was in the lead how could the rider get into his path???

It's a good point, but if it happened, it happened. I believe both accounts - both those of Hans Lobart and the guy who timed Cool Papa Bell at 10 seconds flat. Cornering is a skill.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by robw1959

It's a good point, but if it happened, it happened. I believe both accounts - both those of Hans Lobart and the guy who timed Cool Papa Bell at 10 seconds flat. Cornering is a skill.

I think the problem here is that Bell claimed he did 12 seconds flat, not ten. Ten is impossible for a human rounding the bases. His fastest time that was actually timed/recorded was 13.60 seconds.

As for the lights story, that is actually true, but it came with an asterisk. He was at a hotel that had a three-second delay on the light, so he was literally able to get in bed before the room got dark. Bell told that story in his later years, saying that Satchel Paige wasn't lying.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I think the problem here is that Bell claimed he did 12 seconds flat, not ten. Ten is impossible for a human rounding the bases. His fastest time that was actually timed/recorded was 13.60 seconds.

As for the lights story, that is actually true, but it came with an asterisk. He was at a hotel that had a three-second delay on the light, so he was literally able to get in bed before the room got dark. Bell told that story in his later years, saying that Satchel Paige wasn't lying.

Hell, 10 is impossible for a human in a straight line.

It's funny in this group you have people who want to argue that the old guys were super-human and others who want to argue that Babe Ruth wouldn't crack a lineup today and Walter Johnson threw 80 MPH. It's amazing.

[Misunderestimated]

Globetrotter "Goose" Tatum was a Hall of Fame basketball player and a Negro League baseball player ...
Monte Ward was a hitter-pitcher manager labor leading lawyer and a great golfer... (we could probably argue about whether golfers are great athletes)

[paul]

Every thread needs another card.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Horse can't corner those 90 degree corners. If you had to stay in the base paths I could probably beat a formula one car, that doesn't make me faster.

Also your statement makes no sense, if he was in the lead how could the rider get into his path???

I relayed a story from Hans Lobert, not my own story. If you're running and a horse is next to you and wants your space, aren't you going to slow down and let them take the lead? The alternative is being run over.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

I relayed a story from Hans Lobert, not my own story. If you're running and a horse is next to you and wants your space, aren't you going to slow down and let them take the lead? The alternative is being run over.

If the horse is next to you, you're not in the lead.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If the horse is next to you, you're not in the lead.

Lobert's version of the story is that he was in the lead rounding second base and the horse cut the base inside the bag and went into his path briefly, then passed him about five feet before the finish line to win by a nose. So it seems true that he was winning and the horse interfered (at second base), then they were tied at third base, before the horse won the race from third-home.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

if the horse was within the base paths, just inside of Lobert rounding second, and therefore not cheating, then logically the horse was in the lead at that point.

Logically speaking a horse cannot get into the path of someone who is in front of him.

Maybe Lobert managed to pass the horse back again on the way to third and around the bag, but the account simply doesn't make a ton of sense.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

if the horse was within the base paths, just inside of Lobert rounding second, and therefore not cheating, then logically the horse was in the lead at that point.

Logically speaking a horse cannot get into the path of someone who is in front of him.

Maybe Lobert managed to pass the horse back again on the way to third and around the bag, but the account simply doesn't make a ton of sense.

Lobert touched second base and rounded the bag normally. The rider steered the horse to the home plate side of the bag instead, not touching the bag, but going into Lobert’s path as the rider then started cutting towards third base. It makes a lot of sense if someone behind you in a race doesn’t take the same path that they could interfere with you when you are in the lead. I’m just passing along a detailed account of what happened because I wanted to know after seeing the back and forth. Everything he says is plausible, including the horse out-sprinting him from third to home. Lobert said afterwards that it was too dangerous to try again