Safeguards at shows

[ClementeFanOh]

JustinD- first of all, I won’t massacre you The reality is that people are voluntarily attending card shows (or not attending). If a person comes to the conclusion that showing a driver’s license is somehow a security risk, then they can opt out of that show. I’ve never organized a card show, so I haven’t given a ton of thought to how show handlers would treat the information. Maybe matching the person’s face with the ID is good enough. Maybe the ticket taker(s) simply write “Trent King Ohio” on a legal pad, then the next attendee’s name and so on. Ohio Driver licenses don’t even list the person’s SS number, so that’s out. I mean, if people don’t like the idea of strangers at a show stealing their stuff, the idea of making people prove their identity seems like a decent step in the right direction. One thing is for sure- hesitation or reluctance to enhance security favors the bad guys. Trent King

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

JustinD- first of all, I won’t massacre you The reality is that people are voluntarily attending card shows (or not attending). If a person comes to the conclusion that showing a driver’s license is somehow a security risk, then they can opt out of that show. I’ve never organized a card show, so I haven’t given a ton of thought to how show handlers would treat the information. Maybe matching the person’s face with the ID is good enough. Maybe the ticket taker(s) simply write “Trent King Ohio” on a legal pad, then the next attendee’s name and so on. Ohio Driver licenses don’t even list the person’s SS number, so that’s out. I mean, if people don’t like the idea of strangers at a show stealing their stuff, the idea of making people prove their identity seems like a decent step in the right direction. One thing is for sure- hesitation or reluctance to enhance security favors the bad guys. Trent King

If the purpose of showing IDs is to have a list of possible suspects when a theft occurs, then more information would need to be recorded than just a name and a state. There are a lot of John Smiths out there so at least an address would be needed as well to make the list useful in any way. Unfortunately, it probably doesn't take much for someone to get a fake ID to show so if potential criminals have one, the list becomes useless.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by jayshum

If the purpose of showing IDs is to have a list of possible suspects when a theft occurs, then more information would need to be recorded than just a name and a state. There are a lot of John Smiths out there so at least an address would be needed as well to make the list useful in any way. Unfortunately, it probably doesn't take much for someone to get a fake ID to show so if potential criminals have one, the list becomes useless.

It's a start and a very good cost effective start if you ask me. You can't have it all or both ways but you can take small little security measurements with limited costs involved such as this. This is just me but fine with producing a photo Id at shows.

[Steve_NY]

I contend that the National should show the way for other smaller shows. The National should set the bar on security. Is that too much to ask of them?

It's still up to booth holders to maintain their own security during and after the show.

I prefer cash payments but in the likely event that I will get checks or PayPal, at that time I require valid picture ID. Holding an item for a few days until checks clear is definitely a requirement. If the buyer balks at that, then it's time to be suspicious of their intentions.

Any other thoughts on security and how to handle that during and after the show closes for the evening?

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Steve_NY

I contend that the National should show the way for other smaller shows. The National should set the bar on security. Is that too much to ask of them?

It's still up to booth holders to maintain their own security during and after the show.

I prefer cash payments but in the likely event that I will get checks or PayPal, at that time I require valid picture ID. Holding an item for a few days until checks clear is definitely a requirement. If the buyer balks at that, then it's time to be suspicious of their intentions.

Any other thoughts on security and how to handle that during and after the show closes for the evening?

I know we have some National board members on this forum. Would love to hear their thoughts.

Steve, my opinion, you need to set yourself up for success.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

It's a start and a very good cost effective start if you ask me. You can't have it all or both ways but you can take small little security measurements with limited costs involved such as this. This is just me but fine with producing a photo Id at shows.

Concur, especially at larger shows.

Look at jewelry stores. While most don’t ask for ID, you better believe you are being watched the whole time.

[Rich Klein]

What liability is there in asking for IDS?

None. I'm just trying to have as little friction as possible for our guests. If I'm asked to verify with ID's (I'll bring that up to our brotherhood board and then the synagogue board) I sure will ask for ID's

If I know the person I can skip the ID part but if I don't or not sure I can do that then.

Rich

[Musashi]

I see all this conversation about how requiring photo ID's will deter criminals, and am wondering if I'm the only delinquent here who purchased alcohol before they turned 21...

[ClementeFanOh]

Brian- I’m unsure if your remark is tongue in cheek. Assuming it’s not, the notion of photo ID requirement isn’t a cure all. Instead, it’s one more measure to make it harder on potential thieves at shows. It’s also not alone as the only potentially controversial measure that show organizers can implement to at least make these guys consider trying their crimes at another show than their own. Identifying these steps and quantifying their cost (financial and social) is worth the discussion. I don’t care in the least of there is stronger security physical presence, video presence, and preventative measures- I’m just one guy though. Trent King

[ClementeFanOh]

Todd (notfast)- okay, I’ll bite. What exactly is the liability you have mentioned more than once? Please explain the liability of, say, keeping a list of attendee names and forms of ID ( example “Trent King, Ohio driver’s license”) and then shredding it after a successful show- after no incidents have been reported, that is. I’m reading between the lines that you consider it an imposition, but that’s not the same as a liability. I’m hard pressed to think of an example of anything that is made better/more thorough without incurring some cost or extra steps. The wish to somehow will better security into existence without action is exactly that- a wish. That’s the bone of contention, I suppose. Do people want to complain without action, or actually do things that increase the possibility of safer shows? Trent King

[notfast]

Producing and showing ID is pointless unless the information is being stored. That’s where the liability would come in to play. Who’s is keeping this info? What are they doing with it? What happens if there is a breach?

The solution that is most reasonable is more visible cameras and more visible security. These deter the majority of criminals.

Then everyone needs to be responsible for security of their own space.

One guy working the booth should never happen unless someone is going to the bathroom or grabbing food to bring back. Need multiple workers always.

Never hand cards to more than one person at a time. Make sure showcases are locked and back stock is secure. This could be as simple as having a case with a handle bike locked to a table leg or a standalone safe. Even simple deterrents such as moving cash box/envelope location often are usually not considered. I could go on and on. Nothing is incredibly difficult its just that most people don’t have the experience of dealing with people essentially trying to shoplift.

The majority of people (including cops and paid security officers) do not have the experience needed to prevent retail theft except by their existing and showing presence…which it’s important so this should always be the top priority of all shows.