Surprisingly low WAR

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I like ops a lot. WAR seems overused and often incorrect. Seems like a starter that plays every day but is decent is going to have an outsized war against a player that for whatever reason is killing it but doesn’t get to play every day.

The early question about Dante Bichette's low WAR in 1995 shows that just playing every day doesn't necessarily lead to a high WAR.

[jayshum]

For anyone interested, here's a link to the baseball-reference.com page that shows how WAR is calculated:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...position.shtml

[akleinb611]

Getting back to the original focus of this discussion - Lou Piniella - his low career WAR is probably explained by a fairly short career (he didn't catch on in the majors until he was 29; deducting two meaningless tryout years and two seasons at the end when he was barely a part time player, you get 14 years); a lack of walks; almost no stolen bases; and genuinely poor fielding. He had no range in the outfield. He was, in fact, the stereotypical big, hard-hitting white guy who would be planted at first base so he would cause the least harm, and would clog up the bases if he didn't hit a home run. He was a good player, no doubt about it, but he wasn't as good as many people thought at the time.

It's human nature. We do overrate the players we like.

[bbcard1]

There is a huge knot of third basemen that should be considered in the Hall of Fame. Their WAR is between around 55 and 70. These include: Nettles, Buddy Bell, Boyer, Bando, Darrell Evans, Ventura, and Hack.

I like WAR in that it gives some context to the era.

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

There is a huge knot of third basemen that should be considered in the Hall of Fame. Their WAR is between around 55 and 70. These include: Nettles, Buddy Bell, Boyer, Bando, Darrell Evans, Ventura, and Hack.

I like WAR in that it gives some context to the era.

Once Ron Santo Got in I thought for sure Boyer would be next ,
Very similar careers

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

Once Ron Santo Got in I thought for sure Boyer would be next ,
Very similar careers

Oddly, If you look up Boyer, Santo is not even on the list of 10 most comparable batters.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

For anyone interested, here's a link to the baseball-reference.com page that shows how WAR is calculated:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...position.shtml

Can they really reconstruct every game way back in time to get to these levels of detail on particular at bats? I mean you couldn't do most of this stuff from a box score.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Can they really reconstruct every game way back in time to get to these levels of detail on particular at bats? I mean you couldn't do most of this stuff from a box score.

I've always wondered the same thing about the fielding and base running components of WAR for players more than 20 years ago let alone 100 years ago. I think they do the best they can, but it's why WAR is just one way to try to compare players but not the absolute answer that some people try to claim it to be.

[gregndodgers]

Nettles does not get my HOF vote (not that anyone cares). I saw him play for years, and I hated that he made so many great plays against my Dodgers, but consider this:
1. He never batted .300 or better in any full season, his best being .276 in 78'
2. Career .248 hitter.
3. .225 batting average in 53 post season games.
4. 25 HRs in any season should not be a high bar for a third baseman, yet Nettles accomplished that only five times.
5. Career OBP of just .329.

His great defense and longevity (22 seasons) are what helps is WAR, but his very mediocre offense keeps him out of the HOF.

[packs]

I agree on Nettles. He joins a long list of Yankees who were great for the Yankees but not quite HOFers and I think that's just fine. It's also important to note that unlike many of his fellow Yankees greats not in the HOF, the Yankees did not retire his number like they did with some of his peers like Bernie, Posada, O'Neil or Pettitte. Though he was a captain.