Poll - Greatest Living Player

[Piratedogcardshows]

Politics aside Barry Bonds for me. Sandy for pitchers
.

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by Jason

Politics aside Barry Bonds for me. Sandy for pitchers
.

Barry Bonds juicing himself to the gills with PEDS is not bad politics---it's called cheating. It's called desecrating the integrity of the game's record book. Keep the bum out of the Baseball Hall of Fame. Always keep him in the elite hall of shame.

Yes, Barry had a definite HOF career going, just like Joe Jackson. Jackson's misdeeds came in a controversial World Series; how much Joe threw his part of the Series is still argued about back and forth. Bonds's misdeeds came after McGwire and Sosa wowed everybody in 1998, and Barry decided he was going to get some of that stuff, and make everybody forget the former record-holders. What a lousy mess. Furthermore, the juicers influenced young players to use PEDS. I've read of some tragic stories.... --- Brian Powell

[jingram058]

Jackson was banned for participating to some degree in throwing a World Series - he was great, but he's out of the discussion. Great stats, all for nothing.

Rose was banned for gambling. He knew clearly what he was doing, and was banned. Great stats, all for nothing.

Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, et al, all blatantly thumbed their collective noses at the no PEDs rules. They knew what they were doing. They aren't banned, but they aren't going into the HoF anytime soon. Great stats, meaningless, all for nothing. Very wealthy, but that's as far as it goes.

Collectors go all gaga over certain cards, and spout meaningless, subjective or otherwise arguments about their stats and greatness. In the end, it means absolutely nothing.

[brian1961]

Succinctly well-said, James Ingram. -- Brian Powell

[Exhibitman]

The Bonds vote proves the value of an anonymous ballot. Looks to me that a lot more people are voting for Bonds than are willing to risk the opprobrium of others for admitting that they voted for Bonds. I admit it, I voted for him. He was a surefire first-ballot HOFer with three MVPs before the PEDs and the greatest force ever seen while juicing. I can't ignore what he did on the field regardless of what I think of him. I won't support him for the HOF; his punishment for doping is that the only way he gets in is with a ticket. I have a similar view about Joe Jackson. No way can I ignore his accomplishments on the field when discussing great players despite my belief that he knowingly took money to throw the World Series and deserves to be banned forever. It is possible to hold a mixed view. I loved Pete Rose as a player; cruddy human being.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I was just about to compliment you on the use of "contumely" but you changed it lol.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I was just about to compliment you on the use of "contumely" but you changed it lol.

I thought "opprobrium" was more apropos. Either would have been bitchen.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The Bonds vote proves the value of an anonymous ballot. Looks to me that a lot more people are voting for Bonds than are willing to risk the opprobrium of others for admitting that they voted for Bonds. I admit it, I voted for him. He was a surefire first-ballot HOFer with three MVPs before the PEDs and the greatest force ever seen while juicing. I can't ignore what he did on the field regardless of what I think of him. I won't support him for the HOF; his punishment for doping is that the only way he gets in is with a ticket. I have a similar view about Joe Jackson. No way can I ignore his accomplishments on the field when discussing great players despite my belief that he knowingly took money to throw the World Series and deserves to be banned forever. It is possible to hold a mixed view. I loved Pete Rose as a player; cruddy human being.

I appreciate your explanation and reasoning. In reference to the HOF, I have always said that all PED users from that era should be in the HOF. My reasoning is, once they let one in, all should be in. Pudge Rodriguez and others have been voted in, so for me, all get in. Don’t need a positive test or a smoking needle to know if someone used. My only issue with Bonds is that his use took two HR records away from deserving players who didn’t use.

[Yoda]

Josh Gibson broke Cobb's lifetime ML batting average and he didn't need to do anything except have an outstanding career.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Josh Gibson broke Cobb's lifetime ML batting average and he didn't need to do anything except have an outstanding career.

Well, that, an incomplete sample of 602 games, and a political movement almost every large corporate body in America virtue signaled for over 70 years after his death.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Well, that, an incomplete sample of 602 games, and a political movement almost every large corporate body in America virtue signaled for over 70 years after his death.

Orwellian.