Poll - Greatest Living Player

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I see two problems excluding players from this sort of discussion for steroids. One, we don't really know who else may have used them (not everyone confessed or got caught). Two, players for whom many have a nostalgia bias used or likely used amphetamines, which while perhaps not as potent as steroids appear by most definitions to be PEDs. So this dividing line between juicing villains and clean heroes may not be that clear. It feels a bit wishful thinking and nostalgia driven to me.

While amphetamines may have helped players be more alert and able to focus better, I don't think they had the same body-altering effects that PEDs had on many of the players that used them. You didn't see guys putting on massive amounts of muscles or their heads growing when using amphetamines.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

While amphetamines may have helped players be more alert and able to focus better, I don't think they had the same body-altering effects that PEDs had on many of the players that used them. You didn't see guys putting on massive amounts of muscles or their heads growing when using amphetamines.

It was just different help. With the amphetamines they can play like they have all the energy in the world. Without them they might have been seriously tired and sore and played a piss poor game. In a long season those games on amphetamines was a insanely great help to those players. If you think they are like drinking a cup of coffee I have a bridge to sell you. OK if the cup held 50 gallons of high test coffee and they downed it in a few minutes it might be comparable.

The speed freaks everyone loves are just as bad as any other PED user.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It was just different help. With the amphetamines they can play like they have all the energy in the world. Without them they might have been seriously tired and sore and played a piss poor game. In a long season those games on amphetamines was a insanely great help to those players. If you think they are like drinking a cup of coffee I have a bridge to sell you. OK if the cup held 50 gallons of high test coffee and they downed it in a few minutes it might be comparable.

The speed freaks everyone loves are just as bad as any other PED user.

Yet people romanticize Mays and Mantle etc. and vilify Bonds and ARod. Did one person, ever, question Mays' (rightful IMO) status as greatest living player on account of his taking amphetamines which seems likely?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yet people romanticize Mays and Mantle etc. and vilify Bonds and ARod. Did one person, ever, question Mays' (rightful IMO) status as greatest living player on account of his taking amphetamines which seems likely?

There's a lot less known about the extent of usage of amphetamines than there is about PEDs. No one knows for sure who was using either or how much, but the big difference seems to be that during the PED era, more players were putting up numbers that had never been seen before for home runs and slugging. There have been 48 times a player hit 50 or more home runs. 23 of those were between 1995 and 2007 so almost half in a 13 year period. Sure there were other factors (ball probably juiced compared to other years, smaller fields, expansion so more pitchers), but the added strength provided by PEDs seemed to have a greater impact on offense than the added alertness that amphetamines was providing.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

There's a lot less known about the extent of usage of amphetamines than there is about PEDs. No one knows for sure who was using either or how much, but the big difference seems to be that during the PED era, more players were putting up numbers that had never been seen before for home runs and slugging. There have been 48 times a player hit 50 or more home runs. 23 of those were between 1995 and 2007 so almost half in a 13 year period. Sure there were other factors (ball probably juiced compared to other years, smaller fields, expansion so more pitchers), but the added strength provided by PEDs seemed to have a greater impact on offense than the added alertness that amphetamines was providing.

Yeah I wonder if anyone has done a rigorous study of this controlling for possible confounding variables.

[peterb69]

How come Acuna is on the list but Frank Robinson is not?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by peterb69

How come Acuna is on the list but Frank Robinson is not?

Frank Robinson is not alive.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by peterb69

How come Acuna is on the list but Frank Robinson is not?

He's not living, for one thing.

[Bigdaddy]

As most are aware, in 2015, MLB conducted a fan poll (is that not what we are doing here?) and the four greatest living players, as selected by the fans, were Aaron, Bench, Koufax and Mays. With Willie and Hank now deceased, the real question is 'who replaces them?' on the list.

If I don't care about steroid use, it's Barry and Roger for sure. Taking the 'roids guys off the table, I'm going with Nolan and Rickey.

And if I have to pick one, it's between Bench and Koufax, and I've always been a Reds fan, so Johnny takes the top spot. If you weren't in the top four in 2015, how could you be the best now?

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah I wonder if anyone has done a rigorous study of this controlling for possible confounding variables.

Yeah, I don't think so. People usually just bring up amphetamines as a way to minimize the huge proven advantages steroids and HGH have in baseball performance.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Yeah, I don't think so. People usually just bring up amphetamines as a way to minimize the huge proven advantages steroids and HGH have in baseball performance.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Where was it proven in a systemic fashion? I would bet a lot of guys used and it didn't do shit for them.