Greatest Living Player...

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I understand that. But what do you consider to be great? I consider it to be a player you're unlikely to ever see again. I love Griffey, but Trout is still active. I don't really see a lot separating them or feel like I'll never see another Griffey again.

I don't know how people define their feelings for Mays, but a lot of people describe him as a once in a life player. That is my opinion on Rickey. I really don't think anyone will ever be a better lead off hitter than he was and I highly doubt his accomplishments will be surpassed, and that's because he was impossibly good at what he did.

It’s not what I consider, it’s your given reasons. You said it was because he was five tool and then had to walk back the importance of five tools because Rickey requires a rather broad definition of them to qualify.

You said he’s over Griffey because Griffey was not as good the second half of his career, even though he was more effective than Rickey’s last decade.


If the judgement requires having to find reasons after the first few fail and ends on a subjective feeling, it’s just not a very compelling argument.

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

It’s not what I consider, it’s your given reasons. You said it was because he was five tool and then had to walk back the importance of five tools because Rickey requires a rather broad definition of them to qualify.

You said he’s over Griffey because Griffey was not as good the second half of his career, even though he was more effective than Rickey’s last decade.


If the judgement requires having to find reasons after the first few fail and ends on a subjective feeling, it’s just not a very compelling argument.

I said Griffey's career was uneven and he didn't win. Only you are talking about what you're talking about.

And I do think Rickey was good at everything, which made him a five tool player. Other posters have the idea that to be a five tool player you have to be the greatest at all five tools at the same time.

Rickey's WAR also puts him 14th all time among position players. The only living players with a higher total than him are A-rod (suspended for PED use) and Bonds (long suspected of PED use). Griffey is at 37 and under 100 WAR for his career.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by packs

I said Griffey's career was uneven and he didn't win. Only you are talking about what you're talking about.

And I do think Rickey was good at everything, which made him a five tool player. Other posters have the idea that to be a five tool player you have to be the greatest at all five tools at the same time.

Rickey's WAR also puts him 14th all time among position players. The only living players with a higher total than him are A-rod (suspended for PED use) and Bonds (long suspected of PED use). Griffey is at 37 and under 100 WAR for his career.

I think you have to be at least above average at all 5-tools to be considered a 5-tool player. Ted Williams and Babe Ruth were 2 of the greatest players of all time, but I don't think either was considered more than average fielders so I'm not sure I would call either of them a 5-tool player.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think of Griffey and Bonds as five tool players. I think of Henderson as a unique combination of speed and slugging, but not five tool.

[Exhibitman]

The stats are sketchy but Ruth had a shotgun of an arm in right.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The stats are sketchy but Ruth had a shotgun of an arm in right.

Since he was initially a pitcher, it wouldn't surprise me if he had a good throwing arm in the outfield. However, I don't remember him ever being talked about as a great fielder. Maybe it's just because of all the focus on his hitting and because the fielding stats aren't as plentiful from that time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Since he was initially a pitcher, it wouldn't surprise me if he had a good throwing arm in the outfield. However, I don't remember him ever being talked about as a great fielder. Maybe it's just because of all the focus on his hitting and because the fielding stats aren't as plentiful from that time.

Discussions of great fielding are rarely focused on stats.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Discussions of great fielding are rarely focused on stats.

True. Fielding is definitely harder to quantify than hitting or pitching, especially for older players when all of the things being measured today that go into calculating dWAR aren't available.

[71buc]

I love Griffey and Rickey. Call me crazy but when it’s all said and done they are all just keeping the title warm Ohtani.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Since he was initially a pitcher, it wouldn't surprise me if he had a good throwing arm in the outfield. However, I don't remember him ever being talked about as a great fielder. Maybe it's just because of all the focus on his hitting and because the fielding stats aren't as plentiful from that time.

On the "Glory of Their Times" audio set, Rube Bressler says "Ruth played the outfield like an animal. They know when it's going to rain...I don't. He never threw to the wrong base. He played by instinct. He was like an animal out there."

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

On the "Glory of Their Times" audio set, Rube Bressler says "Ruth played the outfield like an animal. They know when it's going to rain...I don't. He never threw to the wrong base. He played by instinct. He was like an animal out there."

My dad, born in 1918, thought Ruth was the greatest baseball player ever... great pitcher, outfielder, hitter, you name it. Most people forget he pitched and won several complete games when he was with the Yankees. I look up to and respect my dad more than any other man I have known in this life. If he thought Babe Ruth was the greatest, that's more than good enough for me.

[Mike D.]

Just the fact that this thread has had about 20 names, pretty much all with compelling arguments for the title....yet just about nobody would have argued the answer was Mays a week ago is a real testament to just how great great Mays was.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Since he was initially a pitcher, it wouldn't surprise me if he had a good throwing arm in the outfield. However, I don't remember him ever being talked about as a great fielder. Maybe it's just because of all the focus on his hitting and because the fielding stats aren't as plentiful from that time.

I read that his contemporaries said that Ruth was an excellent defensive player who never threw to the wrong base. And he was a right fielder, where the better defensive guys played (as opposed to left field, that is.) Clemente, Furillo, Kaline had the cannons, as opposed to their left field counterparts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I read that his contemporaries said that Ruth was an excellent defensive player who never threw to the wrong base. And he was a right fielder, where the better defensive guys played (as opposed to left field, that is.) Clemente, Furillo, Kaline had the cannons, as opposed to their left field counterparts.

Ruth played about as many games in left field as in right. At least, if this is right.

Ruth played in 1128 games in right field, another 1047 in left field, 163 as a pitcher, 74 in center field, and 32 at first base.

[packs]

He won a Gold Glove. I would say that makes him above average. I realize it was one, but there are plenty of people overlooked or voted into Gold Gloves for reasons that are often hard to understand (Palmeiro, for example. Lots of people don't think Jeter should have won five either).

As a fan I remember Rickey for his flashy catches and making things look effortless. I don't think he was the greatest left fielder of all time or anything but I remember watching what I thought was a very good outfielder.