SGC 5 T206 Wagner

[rats60]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is not true and PSA has never even tried to claim this. People will just make things up to defend corporations they don’t even work for lol.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have NEVER heard that justification. David Hall's defense was always that it was original.

It is true.

https://t206museum.com/periodical_79.html

The book quotes Bill Hughes, a member of the grading service team that issued the card's high grade - Professional Sports Authenticator gave it a 8 on a scale of 1-10 - as admitting he knew the card had been cut from a sheet when he graded it.

Bill Hughes was a well known national dealer who I had done plenty of business with. David Hall is someone who I knew nothing about until much later, as he was unknown to the hobby at the time. This was well known within the hobby. Since I had no idea who David Hall was, I have no idea if he knew this.

I was set up in a show in 1999 where SGC and PSA were grading cards on site. I had a card that I wanted graded so I took it to SCG. They refused to grade the card, saying it was sheet cut. They told me to take the card to PSA, that PSA graded sheet cut cards. PSA gave the card a numbered grade.

In the 80s and 90s, there wasn't a stigma attached to sheet cut cards that there is today.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hughes said, allegedly, the card was so outstanding it would have been sacrilegious not to grade it. You left out that part. Implying he knew it otherwise should not have been graded. That hardly means PSA generally graded sheet cut cards. And I have heard multiple in person accounts of Hall claiming the card was not sheet cut/trimmed. Hall -- who was obviously present when it was graded and the decision maker -- has never justified it on the ground that PSA graded sheet cut cards.

Have sheet cut cards got by PSA's graders? No doubt. Were they considered acceptable and worthy of a number grade? I highly, highly doubt it.

[Lorewalker]

Virtually every card we collect was at one time sheet cut...at the factory or manufacturer's place of business. I always thought the term sheet cut referred to cards cut off of sheets by hand when it was obvious they were done crudely, like in the 1948 Bowman sets, where it was not done to deceive but to liberate the card and make it into a single. For a very long time that was 100% acceptable by collectors because collecting cards was an innocent hobby and the value of the cards paled in comparison to what they sell for today.

Even if that description above is not what they hobby refers to as sheet cut, isn't any grading company who accepts and grades sheet cut cards with numerical grades actually just giving numerical grades to trimmed cards? How would a grading service know or be able to distinguish a card that Mr. Smith cut off a full sheet 70 years after the card was printed or a card that Mr. Smith bought in a 3 holder and trimmed to make it a 9?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Virtually every card we collect was at one time sheet cut...at the factory or manufacturer's place of business. I always thought the term sheet cut referred to cards cut off of sheets by hand when it was obvious they were done crudely, like in the 1948 Bowman sets, where it was not done to deceive but to liberate the card and make it into a single. For a very long time that was 100% acceptable by collectors because collecting cards was an innocent hobby and the value of the cards paled in comparison to what they sell for today.

Even if that description above is not what they hobby refers to as sheet cut, isn't any grading company who accepts and grades sheet cut cards with numerical grades actually just giving numerical grades to trimmed cards? How would a grading service know or be able to distinguish a card that Mr. Smith cut off a full sheet 70 years after the card was printed or a card that Mr. Smith bought in a 3 holder and trimmed to make it a 9?

That's the reason for not grading sheet cut cards (as you define it). Either it's a factory cut, or it isn't.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's the reason for not grading sheet cut cards (as you define it). Either it's a factory cut, or it isn't.

Well the concept is clear to me. Sheet cut from a TPG point of view is the same as trimmed. It is silliness to think there is a distinction. When those terms are not used synonymous it is to the convenience of the user.

[oldjudge]

I thought it was a really sleazy move to dump $10 million on Steve’s desk to try to get him to consign the Wagner. Was the thought that it provided a possible way to avoid capital gains tax? Also, if I was the owner of the card and I wanted to take a $10 million advance I would want a check. Having $10 million in cash is undoubtedly a pain. Investment accounts like Fidelity don’t accept cash so you are pretty much forced to deposit it in a bank. I could see the look on the tellers face when you walked up to the window with your deposit slip and 100,000 $100 bills. To me that looked more like an attempted drug buy than a baseball card deal. It made me think of Mr Mint with a zero or two added on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

[QUOTE=oldjudge;2441632] Having $10 million in cash is undoubtedly a pain. QUOTE]

I could endure it.

[raulus]

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;2441641]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Having $10 million in cash is undoubtedly a pain. QUOTE]

I could endure it.

Way to take one for the team!

I would similarly do my best to cope with such an imposition.

[oldjudge]

Obviously we would all happily take the $10 million but most people's preference would be for a check over cash.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

It is true.

https://t206museum.com/periodical_79.html

The book quotes Bill Hughes, a member of the grading service team that issued the card's high grade - Professional Sports Authenticator gave it a 8 on a scale of 1-10 - as admitting he knew the card had been cut from a sheet when he graded it.

Bill Hughes was a well known national dealer who I had done plenty of business with. David Hall is someone who I knew nothing about until much later, as he was unknown to the hobby at the time. This was well known within the hobby. Since I had no idea who David Hall was, I have no idea if he knew this.

I was set up in a show in 1999 where SGC and PSA were grading cards on site. I had a card that I wanted graded so I took it to SCG. They refused to grade the card, saying it was sheet cut. They told me to take the card to PSA, that PSA graded sheet cut cards. PSA gave the card a numbered grade.

In the 80s and 90s, there wasn't a stigma attached to sheet cut cards that there is today.

No it is not. PSA has never said they had a policy int he 1990's of grading hand cut and trimmed cards as if they were not trimmed. Hughes' actual statements are further proof of it. His 'it was too nice to treat like other cards' sentiment, which you left out of corse, can only possibly be the case if this was NOT the normal policy. Nowhere has PSA ever claimed to have a policy that trimmed cards were fine to get numbers in the 90's. Who you knew in the 90's has absolutely nothing to do with this whatsoever

Just stop making crap up and cutting up statements to try to defend the bullshit lol. It is embarrassing how many fictions people post here that they just made up and then pretend are true to the end.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

No it is not. PSA has never said they had a policy int he 1990's of grading hand cut and trimmed cards as if they were not trimmed. Hughes' actual statements are further proof of it. His 'it was too nice to treat like other cards' sentiment, which you left out of corse, can only possibly be the case if this was NOT the normal policy. Nowhere has PSA ever claimed to have a policy that trimmed cards were fine to get numbers in the 90's. Who you knew in the 90's has absolutely nothing to do with this whatsoever

Just stop making crap up and cutting up statements to try to defend the bullshit lol. It is embarrassing how many fictions people post here that they just made up and then pretend are true to the end.

Who you know in life changes ALL the rules. It also gets you access to info others will never have.

As someone who has cut up a lot of sheets. PSA has never graded obvious hand cut cards. I have never tried grading a single one but I have seen a lot of cards I personaly cut in Beckett slabs.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Who you know in life changes ALL the rules. It also gets you access to info others will never have.

As someone who has cut up a lot of sheets. PSA has never graded obvious hand cut cards. I have never tried grading a single one but I have seen a lot of cards I personaly cut in Beckett slabs.

Who you know changes the rules - but it does not change the truth regardless of how much one wants to think one is special.