General M116 Sporting Life Question

[tycobb]

Originally Posted by molenick

Amazing, Jorge! Are the blue ones scarcer than the pastel ones, or do you just prefer the pastel background?

Thanks Michael. From my experience the Blue backgrounds are more scarce. Only 24 players were issued with the blue background.

Anyone know the details / history of the blue backgrounds ?


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[jimq16415]

A couple questions from a novice collector -

Is there any list anywhere of which backs are available for each player?

and

Are any of the backs more scarce than others?

I only have one of these but if other backs are available for that one I'll watch for others.

Thanks for all the information on this site!

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by jimq16415

A couple questions from a novice collector -

Is there any list anywhere of which backs are available for each player?

and

Are any of the backs more scarce than others?

I only have one of these but if other backs are available for that one I'll watch for others.

Thanks for all the information on this site!

Hi Jim, the second link in post # 19 of this thread includes a master checklist for this set, and indicates what backs for each subject are available. What it doesn't indicate is what the '1', '2' and '3' represent for the backs.

Here is what I believe are the backs designated by these numbers:

1 - "When you think..." with blue ink
2 - "If you want..." with blue ink
3 - "Over 300 Subjects" with blank ink

Having stated that, I believe there are at least 9 errors in these back listings (or else I have very special cards of each of these). The below is the list of cards that might potentially have incorrect designations:


012a Jack Barry - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

018a George Bell - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

023a Bob Bescher - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

036a Bobby Byrne - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

072a Mickey Doolan - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

110a Topsy Hartsel - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

166a Amby McConnell - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

177a Fred Merkle - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

258a Bill Sweeney - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead


It is interesting to note that all these possible discrepancies involve cards having backs designated to be "If you want", whereas I have seen these cards having the "When you think" back.

There might be more discrepancies...these are the ones I know about.


Brian

[jimq16415]

Thanks Brian!

In my case I have an Addie Joss with grey/white (pastel) background and a blue ink "if you want" back. All the copies I've seen are the same but according to that chart I should be able to find "over 300 subjects" with black ink also? For years I never really looked for the "over 300 subjects", I never knew there was a difference. Thanks for the help, new thing to watch for!

jim

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by tycobb

Thanks Michael. From my experience the Blue backgrounds are more scarce. Only 24 players were issued with the blue background.

Anyone know the details / history of the blue backgrounds ?

Not too much info, but each of the 24 blue background variations are of the subjects from either the 1st series of 12 cards, or the 2nd series of 12. Also, each blue background card has a "When you think" back, printed in blue ink.

Here is the Old Cardboard link again, except this time I have changed the sorting so that it shows the cards listed in order by the series.

https://oldcardboard.com/m/m116/m116SearchIndex.asp


Brian

[anchorednw]

Originally Posted by tycobb

Thanks Michael. From my experience the Blue backgrounds are more scarce. Only 24 players were issued with the blue background.

Anyone know the details / history of the blue backgrounds ?


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It's a common misconception that the blue backgrounds are scarcer than the pastel. While some blue backgrounds are more scarce, some pastel backgrounds appear to be slightly more scarce than their blue counterparts. See Bresnahan, M. Brown, Crawford, Gibson, Jordan, Lajoie, Leach, Lord, Tenney, and Thomas.

[sb1]

As to the front back combinations for rarity/value it is not as easy as one would think. Normally the two more common Sporting Life backs are found on the first 18 series and then the "300 Subjects" backs on series 19-24, which are the scarce ones. All of these were issued in 1910-11. What is not well known(or in the guides) and overlooked is the fact that Sporting Life also put out many of the 1-18 series cards with "300 Subjects" backs in 1912 and 1913 which are not as scarce as the others. I believe these were issued in the Team Envelopes of the series 80-90 and possibly early team sets 50-70.

[timn1]

Back issues of my article in Old Cardboard, which is the most comprehensive info on the set, are still available at

https://www.oldcardboard.com/subscriptions.asp


From the Old Cardboard M116 checklist page:
"For a detailed description of the Sporting Life set, see article by Tim Newcomb in Old Cardboard magazine (1910-12 M116 Sporting Life: A (Mostly) Pastel Treasure, Issue #18, Winter 2009, p. 14)."

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by timn1

Back issues of my article in Old Cardboard, which is the most comprehensive info on the set, are still available at

https://www.oldcardboard.com/subscriptions.asp


From the Old Cardboard M116 checklist page:
"For a detailed description of the Sporting Life set, see article by Tim Newcomb in Old Cardboard magazine (1910-12 M116 Sporting Life: A (Mostly) Pastel Treasure, Issue #18, Winter 2009, p. 14)."

Glad to see you chime in on this thread, because I always associate this set with you.

I do have one question...I have the following cards listed below with the 'When You Think" backs, which differs from what shows on the Master Checklist on the Old Cardboard site. I assume that examples of each of these cards should be as I have listed them (or else I am just one incredibly lucky ducky collector).

012a Jack Barry - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

018a George Bell - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

023a Bob Bescher - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

036a Bobby Byrne - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

072a Mickey Doolan - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

110a Topsy Hartsel - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

166a Amby McConnell - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

177a Fred Merkle - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

258a Bill Sweeney - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead


Brian

[markf31]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Glad to see you chime in on this thread, because I always associate this set with you.

I do have one question...I have the following cards listed below with the 'When You Think" backs, which differs from what shows on the Master Checklist on the Old Cardboard site. I assume that examples of each of these cards should be as I have listed them (or else I am just one incredibly lucky ducky collector).

012a Jack Barry - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

018a George Bell - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

023a Bob Bescher - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

036a Bobby Byrne - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

072a Mickey Doolan - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

110a Topsy Hartsel - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

166a Amby McConnell - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

177a Fred Merkle - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead

258a Bill Sweeney - designated having a 2 (If you want) back, I believe listing should designate this card as a 1 (When you think) instead


Brian

Brian, when I checked the list just now on the oldcardboard site, all of the cards you listed are in fact listed in the checklist as having a Type 1 "When you think" back.

Did you perhaps copy and paste the checklist from the site into Excel and the rows shifted on you?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by markf31

Brian, when I checked the list just now on the oldcardboard site, all of the cards you listed are in fact listed in the checklist as having a Type 1 "When you think" back.

Did you perhaps copy and paste the checklist from the site into Excel and the rows shifted on you?

Thanks Mark, I actually had printed off this checklist in January 2009, and I guess those entries were updated at some point after this time. Time to print off a new checklist. And of course this means I am not such a lucky ducky M116 collector after all!

Brian

[StraightRaceCards]

Originally Posted by anchorednw

It's a common misconception that the blue backgrounds are scarcer than the pastel. While some blue backgrounds are more scarce, some pastel backgrounds appear to be slightly more scarce than their blue counterparts. See Bresnahan, M. Brown, Crawford, Gibson, Jordan, Lajoie, Leach, Lord, Tenney, and Thomas.

Good to know. I assumed blue was scarcer across the board

That rarity list on Old Cardboard was helpful