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  #1  
Old 05-29-2024, 12:35 PM
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cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is offline
Charles Jackson
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It's even worse than 60 games. The slugging percentage 'record' is now achieved in 183 plate appearances in 39 games. These 39 games are not even a complete record, just the box scores they were able to find. Now I have no doubt that Josh Gibson was a truly great ballplayer, and he should absolutely be held up as one of the greatest players of all time, but pretending he had the best slugging season in MLB history is..., well, highly dubious at best.
Perhaps there should be a minimum plate appearances total for the single year rate records, rather than just a minimum of 3.1 Plate Appearances per team game played. But I for one will not lose any sleep about Josh Gibson now being listed as the single season slugging leader instead of Barry Bonds. Nor does it particularly bother me that Hugh Duffy's 1897 batting average of .4397 is no longer considered the highest single season batting average.
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Old 05-29-2024, 12:43 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Perhaps there should be a minimum plate appearances total for the single year rate records, rather than just a minimum of 3.1 Plate Appearances per team game played. But I for one will not lose any sleep about Josh Gibson now being listed as the single season slugging leader instead of Barry Bonds. Nor does it particularly bother me that Hugh Duffy's 1897 batting average of .4397 is no longer considered the highest single season batting average.
I don't think anyone is arguing losing sleep. My argument is that this doesn't really make sense as a math decision. Whether that is good or bad up to the individual.
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  #3  
Old 05-29-2024, 12:55 PM
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cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is offline
Charles Jackson
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I don't think anyone is arguing losing sleep. My argument is that this doesn't really make sense as a math decision. Whether that is good or bad up to the individual.
Fair enough. Out of curiosity, what would you have the minimum plater appearances (or whatever metric) for single season hitting rate statistics be?
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Old 05-29-2024, 01:01 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Fair enough. Out of curiosity, what would you have the minimum plater appearances (or whatever metric) for single season hitting rate statistics be?
1, it should be a documented full season before we get to the games/ab/pa. Rate stats on a partial sample is interesting factoid but it’s not really valid. 2, it should be in the same general realm as the other leagues if it’s time. Football is what, 12-16, that’s fine for them because that’s what everyone was/is playing. It’s hard to compare 39 to 154 when that was the standard. It is not even remotely close, which is the issue. The difficulties of travel in the 19th century reduced their schedules too but even then it was a lot more than 39 games, and the different leagues played similar seasons of length for the most part.
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Old 05-29-2024, 01:12 PM
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1, it should be a documented full season before we get to the games/ab/pa. Rate stats on a partial sample is interesting factoid but it’s not really valid. 2, it should be in the same general realm as the other leagues if it’s time. Football is what, 12-16, that’s fine for them because that’s what everyone was/is playing. It’s hard to compare 39 to 154 when that was the standard. It is not even remotely close, which is the issue. The difficulties of travel in the 19th century reduced their schedules too but even then it was a lot more than 39 games, and the different leagues played similar seasons of length for the most part.
Fair enough. I can see how the fact that the stats are incomplete is problematic. Hopefully, they continue to find more box scores, etc. to make the statistics closer to what actually occurred.
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  #6  
Old 05-29-2024, 01:15 PM
MuncieNolePAZ MuncieNolePAZ is offline
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Lots of valid points on both sides. I find it interesting in how I personally view this argument based on my collecting and reading habits. In 2020 (when this was first discussed), I was mainly collecting Ty Cobb and Walter Johnson. I had read a ton of biographies on pre integrated MLB HOFs. I thought the idea of merging records was silly and should not happen. Today, my main focus is still Walter Johnson but also Negro League players. My last several biographies have been from Negro League players. I now am for integrating the records. I am not sure if my change in thoughts is based on my love of the Negro Leagues or my current collecting/reading habits or something else. Nothing ground breaking here or am I trying to say my view is more valid than anyone else's, just some random thoughts. I do enjoy the discussion.

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Old 05-29-2024, 02:44 PM
Hankphenom Hankphenom is offline
Hank Thomas
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Lots of valid points on both sides. I find it interesting in how I personally view this argument based on my collecting and reading habits. In 2020 (when this was first discussed), I was mainly collecting Ty Cobb and Walter Johnson. I had read a ton of biographies on pre integrated MLB HOFs. I thought the idea of merging records was silly and should not happen. Today, my main focus is still Walter Johnson but also Negro League players. My last several biographies have been from Negro League players. I now am for integrating the records. I am not sure if my change in thoughts is based on my love of the Negro Leagues or my current collecting/reading habits or something else. Nothing ground breaking here or am I trying to say my view is more valid than anyone else's, just some random thoughts. I do enjoy the discussion. Chad Paskiewicz
I don't see how anyone can doubt that the Negro Leagues was top baseball, or that the big stars would have been big stars in the major leagues. Was the quality of ball at a big league level, or AAA, AA, A, etc.? We'll never know. One factor to consider is that whites made up 90% of the population then, so they had a much bigger cohort to draw from. Same with 19th century ball, Latin American ball, Japanese ball, etc. So why don't we just have the separate records that were actually set for each of them and concede that some of their players would have been setting records in the majors had they been playing there instead. I just don't see trying to shoehorn them in together in a combined record books--Cooperstown and other honors, sure--as a productive exercise. Let's look at what they actually did in their own leagues and find amazement and inspiration in that.
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