Memory Lane sold cards they didn't have per SCD

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by steve B

Even if there was enough money involved, which there wasn't could I win a suit? I'm thinking no, because they had a borderline plausible explanation and I wasn't out any money.
Sort of the same thing here.

Yes, that's the long and short of it. There's harm to Memory Lane bidders kept in the dark in a very general sense (e.g., wasted time, opportunity cost), but not "compensable damages" in the practical and legal sense.

That's why most of the comments about Memory Lane's approach have been focused on their reputational hit, rather than actual legal consequences. They picked the approach that best served their consignors (to whom they owe a fiduciary duty), at the expense of their customers (where the relationship is defined by boilerplate terms of bidding).

I think Memory Lane probably made the correct call from a fiduciary perspective. They also made it clear that they're willing to deceive customers and waste their time if they decide it's in the company's financial interest. Their customers are entitled to be upset that they're on the losing side of that calculus, even if they can't prove calculable damages.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I doubt there will be much reputational consequence.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I doubt there will be much reputational consequence.

Speaking for myself, their reputation has taken a big hit in the sense that I'll always think of Memory Lane as the bumbling auction house that shipped seven figures worth of cards to a motel and put themselves in a situation where concealing material facts from bidders was their best option.

But their reputation probably won't stop me from bidding again if I see something I really want that I can't get somewhere else. Sort of like the collectibles version of "Too big to fail." If consignors keep giving them cool stuff, I'll hold my nose and cross my fingers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Speaking for myself, their reputation has taken a big hit in the sense that I'll always think of Memory Lane as the bumbling auction house that shipped seven figures worth of cards to a motel and put themselves in a situation where concealing material facts from bidders was their best option.

But their reputation probably won't stop me from bidding again if I see something I really want that I can't get somewhere else. Sort of like the collectibles version of "Too big to fail." If consignors keep giving them cool stuff, I'll hold my nose and cross my fingers.

Stuff. It overrides almost anything. I think most if not all will do the same.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

As far as a reputational hit I just don't see it. I think most posters ITT feel that the shipping of the cards in such a manner was a mistake and that the handling of the problem was less than ideal.

So you mean to tell me in a world where felons whose crimes were in THIS industry are welcomed back with open arms; a world where known bad actors are still very active; where companies that bend the hell out of the law on a regular basis are incredibly successful, a lapse of judgement or two (which when you boil it down is how a lot of people seem to see the situation) is going to have lasting repercussions for ML? I just don't see it.

And just in case I haven't said it lately. I have no relationship with ML, couldn't pick anyone who works there out of a lineup and I've never done business with them.

[G1911]

Though I very strongly disagree with Peter here, I don't see how he and Lorewalker can possibly be called blowhards. A blowhard is a talkative and boastful braggart, nobody here is bragging in this thread (except for Republican's repeatedly stated class warfare) whatsoever. Talkative, that is true of, I suppose, every poster who has posted in it more than once.

A person is independent of an idea. I have probably disagreed with Carter more intensely than anyone else in this thread historically [as Clementefan does not appear to have any real position in most threads beyond attacking people he doesn't like, frequently in ways demonstrably false, making it difficult to really disagree with any point he has as there is no point], but we are on the 'same side' here because the idea or claim is independent of the user ID. I oft agree with people I normally disagree with, or even dislike, and frequently disagree with people I like. I believe I have only insulted Republican over his very explicit classism and religious discrimination expressed in this thread (I would assume he is trying to get it locked because criticizing Memory Lane and Cohen is clearly one hell of a taboo and is not actually this disgustingly prejudicial). I suppose calling Cohen a fraudster can be considered an insult, but as he was found guilty in court, went to prison for it, and not even his army of fanboys here is pretending he was innocent and wrongfully convicted it is hard to see how this is not a simple fact, albeit unpopular and undesirable to be observed.


Well, I have learned that up is down, that intentionally lying to thousands of bidders is not deceitful, and that selling things you do not have and cannot deliver is just fine (as long as you are rich, rule not applicable to poors on the BST). I ca not wait for the next lesson I will learn in Cardland to expand my limited knowledge.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by G1911

Though I very strongly disagree with Peter here, I don't see how he and Lorewalker can possibly be called blowhards. A blowhard is a talkative and boastful braggart, nobody here is bragging in this thread (except for Republican's repeatedly stated class warfare) whatsoever. Talkative, that is true of, I suppose, every poster who has posted in it more than once.

A person is independent of an idea. I have probably disagreed with Carter more intensely than anyone else in this thread historically [as Clementefan does not appear to have any real position in most threads beyond attacking people he doesn't like, frequently in ways demonstrably false, making it difficult to really disagree with any point he has as there is no point], but we are on the 'same side' here because the idea or claim is independent of the user ID. I oft agree with people I normally disagree with, or even dislike, and frequently disagree with people I like. I believe I have only insulted Republican over his very explicit classism and religious discrimination expressed in this thread (I would assume he is trying to get it locked because criticizing Memory Lane and Cohen is clearly one hell of a taboo and is not actually this disgustingly prejudicial). I suppose calling Cohen a fraudster can be considered an insult, but as he was found guilty in court, went to prison for it, and not even his army of fanboys here is pretending he was innocent and wrongfully convicted it is hard to see how this is not a simple fact, albeit unpopular and undesirable to be observed.


Well, I have learned that up is down, that intentionally lying to thousands of bidders is not deceitful, and that selling things you do not have and cannot deliver is just fine (as long as you are rich, rule not applicable to poors on the BST). I ca not wait for the next lesson I will learn in Cardland to expand my limited knowledge.

I like that this thread has brought us closer. True story!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Though I very strongly disagree with Peter here, I don't see how he and Lorewalker can possibly be called blowhards. A blowhard is a talkative and boastful braggart, nobody here is bragging in this thread (except for Republican's repeatedly stated class warfare) whatsoever. Talkative, that is true of, I suppose, every poster who has posted in it more than once.

A person is independent of an idea. I have probably disagreed with Carter more intensely than anyone else in this thread historically [as Clementefan does not appear to have any real position in most threads beyond attacking people he doesn't like, frequently in ways demonstrably false, making it difficult to really disagree with any point he has as there is no point], but we are on the 'same side' here because the idea or claim is independent of the user ID. I oft agree with people I normally disagree with, or even dislike, and frequently disagree with people I like. I believe I have only insulted Republican over his very explicit classism and religious discrimination expressed in this thread (I would assume he is trying to get it locked because criticizing Memory Lane and Cohen is clearly one hell of a taboo and is not actually this disgustingly prejudicial). I suppose calling Cohen a fraudster can be considered an insult, but as he was found guilty in court, went to prison for it, and not even his army of fanboys here is pretending he was innocent and wrongfully convicted it is hard to see how this is not a simple fact, albeit unpopular and undesirable to be observed.


Well, I have learned that up is down, that intentionally lying to thousands of bidders is not deceitful, and that selling things you do not have and cannot deliver is just fine (as long as you are rich, rule not applicable to poors on the BST). I ca not wait for the next lesson I will learn in Cardland to expand my limited knowledge.

I often disagree with Greg but it's certainly not personal and I respect his intelligence and tenacity. And when you're having a discussion among people with strong views sometimes it takes some back and forth. That's the nature of a debate. We can't all be efficient in our posts like Trent, but then again when all you have to add is to demean people, it may not take many posts.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I would argue that as long as nobody shill bid on the 54 lots that had been stolen, and nobody who was bidding had any knowledge the cards had been stolen, then I would see no reason to remove those sales from results. If each winner had the intention of paying for those lots at the hammer price, then those are valid prices. The consignors are being paid based on that. Just that the money is 100% not coming from the the winners.

Originally Posted by G1911

Well, I have learned that up is down, that intentionally lying to thousands of bidders is not deceitful, and that selling things you do not have and cannot deliver is just fine (as long as you are rich, rule not applicable to poors on the BST). I ca not wait for the next lesson I will learn in Cardland to expand my limited knowledge.

Even you are capable of rational thought, but your opinion still doesn't supercede legal advice....or matter to anyone in your delusional cardland or otherwise.


Peoples opinions are not equal. Some are wrong ,as they don't coincide with facts.

We have now seen we have plenty of people who should be on a 5150 hold, welcome to express their opinions as fact.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

But their reputation probably won't stop me from bidding again if I see something I really want that I can't get somewhere else. Sort of like the collectibles version of "Too big to fail." If consignors keep giving them cool stuff, I'll hold my nose and cross my fingers.

I see this comment often, but how often does an auction house truly have something that is so rare that it overcomes a negative reputation? In all the years Memory Lane has been running auctions they only had one item that I had to have enough for me to hold my nose.

Goldin has never had an item that was so rare and desirable that I would win it from them.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I doubt there will be much reputational consequence.

Concur, onto the next auction!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Concur, onto the next auction!

LOL. Not for me, but I wasn't bidding before either.

[Carter08]

If the consignors aren’t made whole I hope there would be some reluctance to do business with them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Carter08

If the consignors aren’t made whole I hope there would be some reluctance to do business with them.

I would think there's very little chance ML is not going to make them whole.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Carter08

If the consignors aren’t made whole I hope there would be some reluctance to do business with them.

I too think ML will make consignors whole. If they have to come out of pocket for this that price to pay is much smaller...I think...than if they decided to not make consignors whole and the hit they would take to their rep. However it appears there are many on here who might still do business with them in light of that.