Memory Lane sold cards they didn't have per SCD

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I’m saying the sale continued after the theft of said items that they no longer possessed.

If you possessed a card that you were listing for auction, I would think that insurance would cover it if it was stolen during or after the auction was completed. If the auction is completed, that would seem to be a reasonable amount for insurance to pay (which appears to be what ML did). If not, then a fair value would have to be determined some other way, as others have said.

[Exhibitman]

This whole thing is wild. My $0.02:

1. The logistics were idiotic. There is an entire secured logistics industry out there that moves small high value items from point to point and stores them. I've researched a few in the past for a cross-country option for moving my collection. For $2 million in a small-ish box you could readily have them transported securely and stored securely in a facility where theft would be a non-issue. It amazes me that ML sent seven figures in cards with about the same level of care as Aunt Edna's ugly Christmas sweater.

2. Allowing the auction to run baffles me. ML is a CA company. Conducting an auction on items it cannot deliver seems to me to be a violation of multiple consumer protection laws. CA Business & Professions Code 17200 prohibits unfair or fraudulent business practices. Any 'winner' who had no actual chance of winning the card they were chasing because it was stolen a few weeks ago was effectively subjected to an unfair or fraudulent trade practice. Then there are the auction regulation laws. CA Civ Code Section 1812.605(c) requires that all auctions "Truthfully represent the goods to be auctioned." If the cards being auctioned have been stolen, that seems to me to be a pretty big untruth. I have a hard time believing that ML was told by counsel to go ahead and risk running afoul of these laws.

3. Apart from legalities, why would they waste customers' time like this? There are a lot of AH's competing for market share, so why disappoint so many customers by running an auction you can't fulfill when the alternative was to pull the stolen lots and run them later if the cards are recovered? It's just a shitty thing to do to collectors.

Scott, I don't think the insurer would make that call. I've worked for insurers and that isn't how they operate. Property insurers are used to appraisals and valuations; they don't need sham auctions to figure out what the items are worth.

Damn, Phil, that Baker is sweet. Great card.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This whole thing is wild. My $0.02:

1. The logistics were idiotic. There is an entire secured logistics industry out there that moves small high value items from point to point and stores them. I've researched a few in the past for a cross-country option for moving my collection. For $2 million in a small-ish box you could readily have them transported securely and stored securely in a facility where theft would be a non-issue. It amazes me that ML sent seven figures in cards with about the same level of care as Aunt Edna's ugly Christmas sweater.

2. Allowing the auction to run baffles me. ML is a CA company. Conducting an auction on items it cannot deliver seems to me to be a violation of multiple consumer protection laws. CA Business & Professions Code 17200 prohibits unfair or fraudulent business practices. Any 'winner' who had no actual chance of winning the card they were chasing because it was stolen a few weeks ago was effectively subjected to an unfair or fraudulent trade practice. Then there are the auction regulation laws. CA Civ Code Section 1812.605(c) requires that all auctions "Truthfully represent the goods to be auctioned." If the cards being auctioned have been stolen, that seems to me to be a pretty big untruth. I have a hard time believing that ML was told by counsel to go ahead and risk running afoul of these laws.

3. Apart from legalities, why would they waste customers' time like this? There are a lot of AH's competing for market share, so why disappoint so many customers by running an auction you can't fulfill when the alternative was to pull the stolen lots and run them later if the cards are recovered? It's just a shitty thing to do to collectors.

Scott, I don't think the insurer would make that call. I've worked for insurers and that isn't how they operate. Property insurers are used to appraisals and valuations; they don't need sham auctions to figure out what the items are worth.

Damn, Phil, that Baker is sweet. Great card.

+1

Great post. Worth at least 25 cents.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Mark17

+1

Great post. Worth at least 25 cents.

I agree, Adam seems to have a scoop on how this legally was probably a very poor choice by the auction house, as well as just being a damper on their reputation. Definitely a post worth up to $100.00 in my view (but evidently only a phantom auction could determine its true worth).


brianp(arker)-beme

[ricktmd]

I highly doubt the insurance carrier for Memory Lane believes they are the ones that have the lion share of the exposure. Memory Lane and its insurers will be looking for the Best Western Strongsville Carrier to cover the loss at their hotel I would bet. It is also more likely than not that the Best Western is owned by others who pay to fly the BW flag and not a corporate owned hotel. I am involved in partnerships on two Best Western properties where we pay a license fee. Our insurance carrier would be expected to perform or get sued. It will be interesting to see who take the loss if the cards don't show up.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ricktmd

I highly doubt the insurance carrier for Memory Lane believes they are the ones that have the lion share of the exposure. Memory Lane and its insurers will be looking for the Best Western Strongsville Carrier to cover the loss at their hotel I would bet. It is also more likely than not that the Best Western is owned by others who pay to fly the BW flag and not a corporate owned hotel. I am involved in partnerships on two Best Western properties where we pay a license fee. Our insurance carrier would be expected to perform or get sued. It will be interesting to see who take the loss if the cards don't show up.

I believe there is a state law in Ohio limiting the liability of innkeepers for lost or stolen customer property to a very small amount. I read it on the back of the hotel door last time I was in Cleveland for a National. Every place I've ever traveled has the same sort of rules. The BW will probably happily hand over the $500 or whatever it is and call it a day.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This whole thing is wild. My $0.02:

1. The logistics were idiotic. There is an entire secured logistics industry out there that moves small high value items from point to point and stores them. I've researched a few in the past for a cross-country option for moving my collection. For $2 million in a small-ish box you could readily have them transported securely and stored securely in a facility where theft would be a non-issue. It amazes me that ML sent seven figures in cards with about the same level of care as Aunt Edna's ugly Christmas sweater.

2. Allowing the auction to run baffles me. ML is a CA company. Conducting an auction on items it cannot deliver seems to me to be a violation of multiple consumer protection laws. CA Business & Professions Code 17200 prohibits unfair or fraudulent business practices. Any 'winner' who had no actual chance of winning the card they were chasing because it was stolen a few weeks ago was effectively subjected to an unfair or fraudulent trade practice. Then there are the auction regulation laws. CA Civ Code Section 1812.605(c) requires that all auctions "Truthfully represent the goods to be auctioned." If the cards being auctioned have been stolen, that seems to me to be a pretty big untruth. I have a hard time believing that ML was told by counsel to go ahead and risk running afoul of these laws.

3. Apart from legalities, why would they waste customers' time like this? There are a lot of AH's competing for market share, so why disappoint so many customers by running an auction you can't fulfill when the alternative was to pull the stolen lots and run them later if the cards are recovered? It's just a shitty thing to do to collectors.

Scott, I don't think the insurer would make that call. I've worked for insurers and that isn't how they operate. Property insurers are used to appraisals and valuations; they don't need sham auctions to figure out what the items are worth.

Damn, Phil, that Baker is sweet. Great card.

Clearly, the problem is the law, for we have ascertained based upon our material interests that J.P. & Gang wouldn't do anything illegal, shady, or sleazy. We must change these unjust laws.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This whole thing is wild. My $0.02:

1. The logistics were idiotic. There is an entire secured logistics industry out there that moves small high value items from point to point and stores them. I've researched a few in the past for a cross-country option for moving my collection. For $2 million in a small-ish box you could readily have them transported securely and stored securely in a facility where theft would be a non-issue. It amazes me that ML sent seven figures in cards with about the same level of care as Aunt Edna's ugly Christmas sweater.

2. Allowing the auction to run baffles me. ML is a CA company. Conducting an auction on items it cannot deliver seems to me to be a violation of multiple consumer protection laws. CA Business & Professions Code 17200 prohibits unfair or fraudulent business practices. Any 'winner' who had no actual chance of winning the card they were chasing because it was stolen a few weeks ago was effectively subjected to an unfair or fraudulent trade practice. Then there are the auction regulation laws. CA Civ Code Section 1812.605(c) requires that all auctions "Truthfully represent the goods to be auctioned." If the cards being auctioned have been stolen, that seems to me to be a pretty big untruth. I have a hard time believing that ML was told by counsel to go ahead and risk running afoul of these laws.

3. Apart from legalities, why would they waste customers' time like this? There are a lot of AH's competing for market share, so why disappoint so many customers by running an auction you can't fulfill when the alternative was to pull the stolen lots and run them later if the cards are recovered? It's just a shitty thing to do to collectors.

Scott, I don't think the insurer would make that call. I've worked for insurers and that isn't how they operate. Property insurers are used to appraisals and valuations; they don't need sham auctions to figure out what the items are worth.

Damn, Phil, that Baker is sweet. Great card.

Well said, Adam.

And Phil, that "Big Eater" card is just as sweet, if not sweeter!

[Luke]

Wild story. I hope the cards are found and everyone is made whole. Shipping a box with 2 million in cards to a Best Western is mind-boggling to me. The only way I can imagine doing that is if I had a guy sitting in the lobby all day long waiting to sign for it.

[anchorednw]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This whole thing is wild. My $0.02:

1. The logistics were idiotic. There is an entire secured logistics industry out there that moves small high value items from point to point and stores them. I've researched a few in the past for a cross-country option for moving my collection. For $2 million in a small-ish box you could readily have them transported securely and stored securely in a facility where theft would be a non-issue. It amazes me that ML sent seven figures in cards with about the same level of care as Aunt Edna's ugly Christmas sweater.

2. Allowing the auction to run baffles me. ML is a CA company. Conducting an auction on items it cannot deliver seems to me to be a violation of multiple consumer protection laws. CA Business & Professions Code 17200 prohibits unfair or fraudulent business practices. Any 'winner' who had no actual chance of winning the card they were chasing because it was stolen a few weeks ago was effectively subjected to an unfair or fraudulent trade practice. Then there are the auction regulation laws. CA Civ Code Section 1812.605(c) requires that all auctions "Truthfully represent the goods to be auctioned." If the cards being auctioned have been stolen, that seems to me to be a pretty big untruth. I have a hard time believing that ML was told by counsel to go ahead and risk running afoul of these laws.

3. Apart from legalities, why would they waste customers' time like this? There are a lot of AH's competing for market share, so why disappoint so many customers by running an auction you can't fulfill when the alternative was to pull the stolen lots and run them later if the cards are recovered? It's just a shitty thing to do to collectors.

Scott, I don't think the insurer would make that call. I've worked for insurers and that isn't how they operate. Property insurers are used to appraisals and valuations; they don't need sham auctions to figure out what the items are worth.

Damn, Phil, that Baker is sweet. Great card.

+1 This. I for one am glad that everyone (to our knowledge) will be made (or told they will be) whole. That said, what ML did was NOT ethical no matter how you paint or draw it up.

[Blunder19]

I was worried when i heard a bunch of 14CJs were stolen..

i confirmed my card was not part of the stolen group..... Sorry to hear of this news for the other buyers. I hope the lost cards are found.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

I was worried when i heard a bunch of 14CJs were stolen..

i confirmed my card was not part of the stolen group..... Sorry to hear of this news for the other buyers. I hope the lost cards are found.

Damn Jamie, beautiful card.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

1. The logistics were idiotic. There is an entire secured logistics industry out there that moves small high value items from point to point and stores them. I've researched a few in the past for a cross-country option for moving my collection. For $2 million in a small-ish box you could readily have them transported securely and stored securely in a facility where theft would be a non-issue. It amazes me that ML sent seven figures in cards with about the same level of care as Aunt Edna's ugly Christmas sweater.

I think it is more than reasonable to use a reliable company like Fed Ex to deliver 2 million or more worth of valuables as long as the person shipping has the authorization, by their ins carrier, to use Fed Ex as a means of shipping and maintain full coverage.

That is moot though because Fed Ex delivered the box. Unless we hear the box they delivered was empty and was therefore thrown out and explains why they cannot find it.

This is all on the co who shipped the cards--they sent them in care of a $75 a night motel who had no involvement with the contents.