Trout hurt again, naturally

[packs]

I really don't think this is a common issue amongst players who don't pitch. Aside from specific people (like Trout, Anthony Rendon, Stanton, even Judge) there isn't the same injury bug as there is for the pitching side.

I do agree that pitching has been reduced from an art form to trying to throw a ball through a brick wall. It's pretty obvious to this casual observer that if you want to pitch for a long time, you'll need to learn how to actually pitch. And it's no mystery why somebody like Noah Syndergaard gets hurt every year.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by packs

...pitching has been reduced from an art form to trying to throw a ball through a brick wall...

Very sad and very true.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by packs

I really don't think this is a common issue amongst players who don't pitch. Aside from specific people (like Trout, Anthony Rendon, Stanton, even Judge) there isn't the same injury bug as there is for the pitching side.



I do agree that pitching has been reduced from an art form to trying to throw a ball through a brick wall. It's pretty obvious to this casual observer that if you want to pitch for a long time, you'll need to learn how to actually pitch. And it's no mystery why somebody like Noah Syndergaard gets hurt every year.

As a Chicago fan, I can add Roberts, Jimenez, Moncada, Bryant, Baez, Contreras and Bellinger to that list.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[D. Bergin]

Recency bias's do exist...both for the good, and the bad.

The more I pore over old-timers statistics, the more I scratch my head whenever, seemingly mobs of posters, start opining about the injury proneness of today's players and how players were made of something different, something more Iron Man-ish, in the good old days (whenever those were).

Nolan Ryan is not the norm
Hank Aaron is not the norm
Willie Mays is not the norm
Warren Spahn is not the norm
Ty Cobb is not the norm
even Derek Jeter...is not the norm

Their longevity is part of their greatness, but they are the exception, the outlier, not the norm.

History is littered with players who were briefly "Great", but succumbed to one injury, malady, ailment or another, to either diminish their career, or end it...sooner then hoped.

There's been lots of "All-Stars" throughout baseball history. Been a lot less HOF'ers and All-Time Greats...for good reason.

Sure, pitchers expend more energy then they used to from pitch to pitch to pitch...and they also benefit from modern medical technology, to make a comeback, much more likely then used to be possible when the inevitable injury does occur.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Recency bias's do exist...both for the good, and the bad.

The more I pore over old-timers statistics, the more I scratch my head whenever, seemingly mobs of posters, start opining about the injury proneness of today's players and how players were made of something different, something more Iron Man-ish, in the good old days (whenever those were).

Nolan Ryan is not the norm
Hank Aaron is not the norm
Willie Mays is not the norm
Warren Spahn is not the norm
Ty Cobb is not the norm
even Derek Jeter...is not the norm

Their longevity is part of their greatness, but they are the exception, the outlier, not the norm.

History is littered with players who were briefly "Great", but succumbed to one injury, malady, ailment or another, to either diminish their career, or end it...sooner then hoped.

There's been lots of "All-Stars" throughout baseball history. Been a lot less HOF'ers and All-Time Greats...for good reason.

Sure, pitchers expend more energy then they used to from pitch to pitch to pitch...and they also benefit from modern medical technology, to make a comeback, much more likely then used to be possible when the inevitable injury does occur.

I don't think anyone is expecting Nolan Ryan or Warren Spahn when we talk about pitcher fragility. The problem is we have tons of guys who are clearly talented enough and destroy their arms very very quickly. This has always happened, there has always been a Herb Score, but it seems to increase even as the complete game has died out. There seems to be a clear decrease in Lou Burdette and Livan Hernandez type pitchers that can hurl consistently over the years. Conserving pitch counts and innings limits, having pitchers throw significantly less every year has not extended careers and in fact seems to have correlated to a shortening of them. We still have the freaks of nature one offs like Verlander that just keeps going, but the problem is the not the .1%.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by G1911

I don't think anyone is expecting Nolan Ryan or Warren Spahn when we talk about pitcher fragility. The problem is we have tons of guys who are clearly talented enough and destroy their arms very very quickly. This has always happened, there has always been a Herb Score, but it seems to increase even as the complete game has died out. There seems to be a clear decrease in Lou Burdette and Livan Hernandez type pitchers that can hurl consistently over the years. Conserving pitch counts and innings limits, having pitchers throw significantly less every year has not extended careers and in fact seems to have correlated to a shortening of them. We still have the freaks of nature one offs like Verlander that just keeps going, but the problem is the not the .1%.

Pitching has become an all or nothing endeavor and is no longer the art form it once was. This is not an "Old man yells at cloud" sort of rant, the reason why arm injuries are more prevalent than ever is due to the over specialization of youth sports, and the fact that every pitcher is maxing out at extremely high speeds on the gun. Throwing is not a natural motion as it is, the amount of stress that is being put on elbow ligaments and shoulders is too great for the body to handle. Combined with the fact that these kids have been throwing hard and often for a long time by the time they hit the Bigs, it's an epedmic of sorts.

You have facilities like drive line emphasizing velocity and spin rate for 12 year olds, it's no wonder that by the time they're 25 their elbows are shot and they'll need either their 2nd or sometimes 3rd Tommy John Surgey.

The position players, probably experience something similar with Baseball being a year round sport now, but the stress is more prevalent IMO in pitchers. We also have the situation now where players are truly investments. Baseball is a Billion Dollar Business. Players are not going to play through minor injuries anymore because the organizations do not want to lose how ever many millions are invested into their young players. It's an unfortunate reality.

[packs]

I disagree with the Nolan Ryan notion too. All any team really wants is an Andy Pettitte or a Jamie Moyer, not a Nolan Ryan. A guy who can pitch every fifth day for more than five innings and can be penciled in pretty much year after year for 180-200 innings. But you have to know how to pitch to do that. That will never be a guy who’s all arm.