Observations from the Card Show Front Lines - UPDATED!!!

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

Always a good read, jolly. If cards like the 62 Willie Mays could talk they would tell you not to put them in a CSG holder. Ugh.

Guys that hide their prices drive me crazy, although if I see a card I am after I will always ask to look at it price unknown. It is annoying when you ask to see a card and flip it around to discover that the price is 50% above market, as is unfortunately the case with a lot of front price tags as well. I would like to hear a good reason for putting the tag on the back. Perhaps it gives the seller a strategic advantage? This probably isn't fair but any time I see a case of cards without prices I tend to assume the dealer is a dickhead. Call me judgmental I guess. They can't all be bad guys.

That all said, I would suspect price-hiders tend to be more expensive overall than the guys who put the tag the tag in front.

If the complaints around here are to be believed, then people who sell on eBay don't escape condemnation for asking museum prices, and yet displaying the price right up front where everyone can see it.

[JollyElm]

Certainly there's gotta be other factors involved with the '62 Mays other than the splintering (see what I did there?) of the wood border, right??

I just had my 1962 Topps #10 Roberto Clemente come back as an SGC 7. An absolutely gorgeous card, yet the prices of his 'sevens' are a mere fraction of what the Mayses (is that the correct way to pluralize Willie?) go for. It's obviously not a perfect comparison, but those two guys sort of occupy the same echelon of 'greatness,' so I imagine their cards should be more similar in value.

Doing a quick (non-scientific) look at the sold prices of their 1961, 1963 and 1964 Topps cards shows a much stronger parallel of value between their PSA 7 cards.

We need Miss Marple to get off of her lazy butt and start working on this mystery...

[raulus]

Looks like a couple of other factors are cited on other threads for why high grade 62T Mays sells for a premium:

1) The dark background in the photo results in a lot of snow, so higher grade cards are more difficult to find.

2) There is often a smudge found by Willie's name or on the thick black line on the bottom edge. These common print defects also mean that it's harder to find a really nice copy.

I guess add those to the woody borders, and you've got your answer. There's just not that many 8s and 9s out there. And these days, everyone who wants but can't afford 8s and 9s are dropping down and bidding up the prices for 6s and 7s.

[jchcollins]

Some quick observations from my local show, which I went to yesterday afternoon, and then again today well after noon, closer to "pack-up and closing" time. Apologies in advance for not having the Jolly font / attribute / sentence structure wisdom. (Let alone his wit)!

For the record, this was the Winston-Salem, NC Fairgrounds "Toy, Hobby, Sports Card, Hot Wheels, & Comic Book Mega Show!" 350+ VENDOR TABLES. (I can assure you by the time I showed up at roughly 2 pm today, there were nowhere near 300 vendors still in the building).

Advertising / Marketing: Eeeh. Until about 12 noon yesterday, I didn't even realize this show was happening - about 15 minutes away from my house. Why it didn't somehow show up in my Facebook feed weeks earlier makes no sense to me. I happened to search "Winston-Salem Card Show" on Google to learn that this one (it's put on twice a year) was starting in about an hour.

Setup: Pretty nice, actually. The space used is the old WS Fairgrounds Education Building, which is air conditioned and though not new - I would guess is at least as big as the space used for the Strongsville show - videos from which kept me busy all last week.

Dealers and Available Vintage: Eeeh. At least a full half / 50% of the floor space was taken up by those hawking toys, comic books, or very shiny sports and / or Pokemon cards. There were at least a decent # of vintage dealers there yesterday; unfortunately I quickly learned that most were playing the "museum curation" game based on their prices. Raw 60's Mantle base cards (there were plenty of them) with $400 and up price tags when I can see the creases that break the surface before I ask to see the card? Yeah, no thanks. I did however find the few, in this case 3 different dealers for the whole show - who had their vintage priced reasonably, and I was able to make deals with them.

Story: So, the guy with the overpriced Mantles - he did have a huge setup and multiple tables that were mostly vintage stars, so I spent a good deal of time at his table yesterday just looking and checking prices to see if there was anything worth even asking to see up close. Short answer - no there wasn't.

So, I'm standing there when the guy says to another customer / showgoer - loudly and obviously for my benefit....something, something, "Yeah, like customers on your side of the glass who just stand in front of my cases all day pricing cards on their phones so they can attempt to squeeze me..." I'm not quoting here, but that was the jist. I slowly turned, walked away - and did not speak with that gentleman again. Funny enough that guy was not back for day 2, either that or he had already left by the time I got there today - admittedly late. My guess is that he pulled out, the laborious effort of curating his museum showcases not netting many sales, and frustrating him.

In all honesty - am I in the wrong here? Do the rest of you not whip out your phone to look at VCP during shows? No sir sorry, I'm not paying $500 for a '63 Mantle raw in G condition. That's not a deal. You mean to tell me Mr. Dealer when you buy vintage, cards or collections - you just pay sticker for whatever the consignor or seller wants, or do you do a modicum of research on pricing and what you "can" pay that is reasonable?

Sorry, but I am not letting the conveniences of the 21st century go by the wayside in terms of whatever this guy thinks is polite / impolite / indifferent, or whatever. The days of sometimes walking around with the rolled-up Beckett under your arm are long gone, but usually with the online tools I have it doesn't take me long at all - maybe 5 minutes and 2-3 lookups - to know whether your stuff is basically reasonably priced with some room to move, or whether or not you are one of the aforementioned museum curators. I didn't ask to see cards and then holdup the show and the dealer's attention / other customers to price them. Mostly I just stood off to the side for a few minutes, not bothering anyone - looking stuff up.

Anywho, despite what might feel like a negative review, I did find the good guys and made some deals. Feel free to checkout my pickups over in the postwar April pickups thread - thanks.

[JollyElm]

I know what you wrote is not a verbatim quote of what the dealer said, but the moment he bitterly remarked how you're looking at your phone to try to "squeeze" him, tells you all you need to know.

If the last ten sales of a card went for $100, and his price is $200, then the last thing in the world you're trying to do is strong-arm him by asking if he'll take a price that's a little closer to a single Benjamin for it...to be in line with what everyone else is selling that card for.

He's the one doing the effin' squeezing with his ridiculous price. To go with the snake theme of my show post, let's call him a Boa ConPRICKtor.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I know what you wrote is not a verbatim quote of what the dealer said, but the moment he bitterly remarked how you're looking at your phone to try to "squeeze" him, tells you all you need to know.

If the last ten sales of a card went for $100, and his price is $200, then the last thing in the world you're trying to do is strong-arm him by asking if he'll take a price that's a little closer to a single Benjamin for it...to be in line with what everyone else is selling that card for.

He's the one doing the effin' squeezing with his ridiculous price. To go with the snake theme of my show post, let's call him a Boa ConPRICKtor.

I don't know that he actually said "squeeze" but that was sure the point. I was not appreciating his great time and effort in already (over-) pricing all of his inventory for me before I got there. Yep, sorry.

With yet another 40%+ high guy, I got the old "I have more in the card than that, sorry" - before I offered a tight, wan smile, thanked him, and walked away. In this case it was a '56 Aaron White Back in a PSA 3, which would have been an improvement over my PSA 2 that I have not had for that long. The cards were comparable, sure, but his had better color. Long story short, his "best price" after coming down 50 bucks from sticker was still roughly on the order of $140 more than recent VCP comps.

(As an aside - yes "VCP average" is just a tool, a starting point, and not something set in stone. I would generally agree that if you aren't willing to ever pay more than the "average" price then you will likely wind up with a lot of "average" looking slabs in terms of centering, color, other intangibles. But I digress...)

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

In all honesty - am I in the wrong here? Do the rest of you not whip out your phone to look at VCP during shows?

No, you are not wrong. I am fortunate enough to have local shows every other month and there are two or three regular vintage dealers, all of whom price reasonably. On the occasions when a mobile museum rolls into town, I do the same as you do. Once I figure out that their prices are out of line with the market, I'll generally just move on. The only thing those guys price reasonably is there shitty attitude. They can keep that, as well. I'm there to enjoy myself.

[Yoda]

I hereby move that Darren aka Jolly Elm be appointed the resident Poet
Laureate of the Net 54 Board. May I have a second?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I hereby move that Darren aka Jolly Elm be appointed the resident Poet
Laureate of the Net 54 Board. May I have a second?

+1