W501-2 is now recognized by SGC!

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

I got to show off my Sisler and tell its story a few times this weekend at the Strongsville show

I do plan on trying to get SGC to reholder it under the W501-2 classification in Cleveland this summer

Way to go, Don! I submitted my raw W501-2 and W575-1 cards of both WaJo and Sam Rice to SGC at the very recent Chantilly Show. I'll try to remember (I have the world's worst memory!) to let you know the results when I receive my slabbed cards.

[rhettyeakley]

Good to see some life in this thread and these cards in general.

As for the W575-1 cards that parallel the E121 Series of 120 set...they do exist but are VERY TOUGH to find and easily 90-95% are actually W501-2 cards that are labeled W575-1.

That being said, blank backed cards of the same quality images and otherwise identical to E121 Series of 120 cards are out there and they are confirmed as such by the better quality image, card stock, & the fact that they are on the same thinner card stock that E121 Series 120 (which is pretty obvious when holding a Series of 80 an Series of 120 in your hand at the same time)

So hate to be the bearer of bad news Val but you still need the Rice card.

I chose 2 "not so totally random" W575-1 (Series of 120) cards from my album to show what they look like & show the image quality vs Val's Rice he showed above

[ValKehl]

Rhett, it isn't clear to me what you mean by your comment, "So hate to be the bearer of bad news Val but you still need the Rice card." Are you telling me that the card I have identified as a W575-1 card is actually a W501-2 card? If so, I disagree. Not only is the card stock different for my W501-2 and what I believe to be my W575-1 of Rice, but the rectangular box containing Rice's image is slightly smaller in both width and height on my W501-2 (and W501-1) card. These same differences also exist between my W501-2 (and W501-1) and my W575-1 cards of WaJo. Rhett, have you ever compared the sizes of the rectangular boxes for the W501 cards vs. the W575-1 cards, and if so, did you find the sizes to be different, as I did?

Rhett, I also find it interesting to note the differences in Sam Rice's name and field position found on the "E121 and related cards" in my Sam Rice collection, as detailed below:

"E. S. Rice" and "O. F." - E121-120 A.m. Caramel, W501-1, and W501-2.

"E. C. Rice" and "C. F." - E121-80 Am. Caramel (with Type 1, Type 1 - reverse, and Type 2 backs), Clark's Bread, Gassler's Bread, Witmor Candy (horizontal back), Henry A. Johnson (purple back stamp), and what I believe to be my W575-1 card (shown above).

"E. C. Rice" and "R. F." - Herpolsheimer's Boy's Clothing, D327-1 Holsum Bread, D327-2 Holsum Bread, and Queen City Cigar Store.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Rhett, it isn't clear to me what you mean by your comment, "So hate to be the bearer of bad news Val but you still need the Rice card." Are you telling me that the card I have identified as a W575-1 card is actually a W501-2 card? If so, I disagree. Not only is the card stock different for my W501-2 and what I believe to be my W575-1 of Rice, but the rectangular box containing Rice's image is slightly smaller in both width and height on my W501-2 (and W501-1) card. These same differences also exist between my W501-2 (and W501-1) and my W575-1 cards of WaJo. Rhett, have you ever compared the sizes of the rectangular boxes for the W501 cards vs. the W575-1 cards, and if so, did you find the sizes to be different, as I did?

Rhett, I also find it interesting to note the differences in Sam Rice's name and field position found on the "E121 and related cards" in my Sam Rice collection, as detailed below:

"E. S. Rice" and "O. F." - E121-120 A.m. Caramel, W501-1, and W501-2.

"E. C. Rice" and "C. F." - E121-80 Am. Caramel (with Type 1, Type 1 - reverse, and Type 2 backs), Clark's Bread, Gassler's Bread, Witmor Candy (horizontal back), Henry A. Johnson (purple back stamp), and what I believe to be my W575-1 card (shown above).

"E. C. Rice" and "R. F." - Herpolsheimer's Boy's Clothing, D327-1 Holsum Bread, D327-2 Holsum Bread, and Queen City Cigar Store.

I was making a joke Val, I probably should have been more clear.

The E. S. RICE (O.F.) I showed in my post is a W575-1, which is the one I believe you need.

I believe you have yours all identified correctly.

There are two different known W575-1 Rice cards.
-You pictured a W575-1 of E. C. RICE (C.F.) which is correct
-The E. S. RICE (O.F.) that I pictured
(possibly a 3rd of E. C. RICE with R.F. but I haven't seen it)


The order which the RICE cards were made is as follows...

1920 (Holsum Type 1) & early 1921 Releases "E. C. RICE" with "R.F."
1921 Bulk of the releases "E. C. RICE" with "C. F."
1922 releases "E. S. RICE" with "O.F."

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I was making a joke Val, I probably should have been more clear.

The E. S. RICE (O.F.) I showed in my post is a W575-1, which is the one I believe you need.

I believe you have yours all identified correctly.

There are two different known W575-1 Rice cards.
-You pictured a W575-1 of E. C. RICE (C.F.) which is correct
-The E. S. RICE (O.F.) that I pictured
(possibly a 3rd of E. C. RICE with R.F. but I haven't seen it)


The order which the RICE cards were made is as follows...

1920 (Holsum Type 1) & early 1921 Releases "E. C. RICE" with "R.F."
1921 Bulk of the releases "E. C. RICE" with "C. F."
1922 releases "E. S. RICE" with "O.F."

Rhett, thanks for explaining your comment - sorry that I didn't catch your joke. I'd been hoping there was no such W575-1 card with "E. S. Rice" and "O. F." existed. Should you ever decide to part with your example, please keep me in mind. Thanks also for the info regarding which years the different Rice variations were issued.

I note that you didn't respond to this question in my earlier post, " Rhett, have you ever compared the sizes of the rectangular boxes for the W501 cards vs. the W575-1 cards, and if so, did you find the sizes to be different, as I did?" Every W501 nad W575-1 card in my collection has this rectangular-box size variance, but I have very, very few of these cards. With all of your experience with these cards, have you found this size variance to be a consistently true differentiator?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Rhett, thanks for explaining your comment - sorry that I didn't catch your joke. I'd been hoping there was no such W575-1 card with "E. S. Rice" and "O. F." existed. Should you ever decide to part with your example, please keep me in mind. Thanks also for the info regarding which years the different Rice variations were issued.

I note that you didn't respond to this question in my earlier post, " Rhett, have you ever compared the sizes of the rectangular boxes for the W501 cards vs. the W575-1 cards, and if so, did you find the sizes to be different, as I did?" Every W501 nad W575-1 card in my collection has this rectangular-box size variance, but I have very, very few of these cards. With all of your experience with these cards, have you found this size variance to be a consistently true differentiator?

Great info, Guys!
Hopefully Rhett (hey Rhett) will see your question. I just thought I would add some W575-1s taken out of their pack..All are pretty close to 100% the same size, when stacked up.
And a Nicely cut, W501 Waite Hoyte with Bagby's name on it.
.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Way to go, Don! I submitted my raw W501-2 and W575-1 cards of both WaJo and Sam Rice to SGC at the very recent Chantilly Show. I'll try to remember (I have the world's worst memory!) to let you know the results when I receive my slabbed cards.

Don, I received these 4 slabbed cards back from SGC today. SGC labeled 3 of the 4 cards correctly, with the W501-1 of Sam Rice receiving a "3" grade (I carefully erased the "14" in pencil in the upper right corner before submitting the card). But sadly, SGC mislabeld my W501-2 card of WaJo as being a W575-1 card. Sigh!

What is especially frustrating is that I made every effort to ensure that SGC would correctly identify all four of these cards by putting a little piece of paper in the top loader with each of these four cards identifying the correct ACC # (W501-2 or W575-1) when I submitted them. And, all four of these cards are correctly identified on the invoice order form I received when I gave these cards to the SGC rep at the Chantilly Show on April 5th. I would have thought that if the SGC grader/researcher was going to disagree with my identification of a card I submitted, SGC would have contacted me to clarify this BEFORE slabbing the card! I have contacted SGC, and SGC has agreed that I may return the mislabeled card to be correctly relabeled.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Don, I received these 4 slabbed cards back from SGC today. SGC labeled 3 of the 4 cards correctly, with the W501-1 of Sam Rice receiving a "3" grade (I carefully erased the "14" in pencil in the upper right corner before submitting the card). But sadly, SGC mislabeld my W501-2 card of WaJo as being a W575-1 card. Sigh!

What is especially frustrating is that I made every effort to ensure that SGC would correctly identify all four of these cards by putting a little piece of paper in the top loader with each of these four cards identifying the correct ACC # (W501-2 or W575-1) when I submitted them. And, all four of these cards are correctly identified on the invoice order form I received when I gave these cards to the SGC rep at the Chantilly Show on April 5th. I would have thought that if the SGC grader/researcher was going to disagree with my identification of a card I submitted, SGC would have contacted me to clarify this BEFORE slabbing the card! I have contacted SGC, and SGC has agreed that I may return the mislabeled card to be correctly relabeled.

I’m glad they are willing to correct their error.

I’d love to see the scans when you have them!

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

I’m glad they are willing to correct their error.

I’d love to see the scans when you have them!

Don, here are scans of the 4 cards I submitted to SGC. The WaJo card that SGC graded "Authentic" is the mislabeled card- this card is actually a W501-2 card.

[theshowandme]

Incredible!

The difference is clear as day when you have the high resolution scans

[ValKehl]

Looking at these 4 cards, I just noticed something else that may enable one to quickly distinguish a W501 card (both types) from a W575-1 card. The open-space distance between the line with the player's name and the line with the position and team name is GREATER on the W501 cards than it is on the W575-1 cards. I wonder if this holds true for all the W501 nad W575-1 cards. Rhett, what thinketh you?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Looking at these 4 cards, I just noticed something else that may enable one to quickly distinguish a W501 card (both types) from a W575-1 card. The open-space distance between the line with the player's name and the line with the position and team name is GREATER on the W501 cards than it is on the W575-1 cards. I wonder if this holds true for all the W501 and W575-1 cards. Rhett, what thinketh you?

Great observation Val. I would like to check to see if I have some examples that backup your line spacing theories between the W501-1, W501-2, and W575-1 cards.

And just in case what John was asking is identifying W501-1 cards (formerly known just as W501), below is a W501-1 example, which all have the 'G-4-22' and card number at top border. Unless the card has had its top border cut off below the point where this possible printed info would be. Then I do not believe a W501 card can have its identification narrowed down to be specifically a W501-1 or W501-2.

Let us know anyone out there if there is some way to differentiate a W501 card in this type of scenario mentioned above.


Brian (ain't my W501-1, no way, no how)