Pre War Era Players you don't see in HOF discussions

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

Another guy I’ve always liked is Babe Herman. WAR is not kind to him but over his first seven seasons and about 1,000 games he hit 348 with an OPS+ of 146. That includes his incredible 1930 season were hit 393 with 35 homers and 130 RBIs. He tailed off after his 30th birthday but he still hit 324 over his career and finished with an OPS+ of 141.

If he had finished that 1930 season with a 400 average he may be in today.

Probably a better player than Billy Herman, who is in.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Probably a better player than Billy Herman, who is in.

That also goes for Rick and Wes Ferrell.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

That also goes for Rick and Wes Ferrell.

Some people think the voters for Rick got him confused with his brother Wes. I think Wes probably belongs in the HOF, and Rick does not.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I would agree Wes has a better case. Hell he was a better hitter than Rick and he was a pitcher!

While Veach was a fine player, I have a problem using RBI as a criterion. When the guys in front of you are on base over 40% of the time of COURSE you are going to have a ton of RBI. For me the rest of the numbers are a little short.

[z28jd]

Rick Ferrell got in partially with the help of his brother, who talked him up for a book, saying he deserved to be in Cooperstown. He was also the AL leader in games caught, which was starting to creep into the news as Bob Boone approached the all-time record and Carlton Fisk approached his record. Eppa Rixey got HOF support when Warren Spahn started approaching his NL record for wins by a lefty, so sometimes it just paid to be in the news.

That 4.04 career ERA for Wes is what has likely kept him out. People made a huge deal about Jack Morris having a 3.90 ERA and getting in, so imagine what a 4.04 would look like to voters before Morris.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Rick Ferrell got in partially with the help of his brother, who talked him up for a book, saying he deserved to be in Cooperstown. He was also the AL leader in games caught, which was starting to creep into the news as Bob Boone approached the all-time record and Carlton Fisk approached his record. Eppa Rixey got HOF support when Warren Spahn started approaching his NL record for wins by a lefty, so sometimes it just paid to be in the news.

That 4.04 career ERA for Wes is what has likely kept him out. People made a huge deal about Jack Morris having a 3.90 ERA and getting in, so imagine what a 4.04 would look like to voters before Morris.

All very good points. Wes' ERA was high, especially after he was 29 years old, and his career was over a few years later.

But from age 21 through 28 he was one of the best players in the League.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

All very good points. Wes' ERA was high, especially after he was 29 years old, and his career was over a few years later.

But from age 21 through 28 he was one of the best players in the League.

Ferrell's ERA+ for his career is 116 which puts Morris to shame. It was an offensively insane era for most of his career.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by z28jd

That 4.04 career ERA for Wes is what has likely kept him out. People made a huge deal about Jack Morris having a 3.90 ERA and getting in, so imagine what a 4.04 would look like to voters before Morris.

Besides his high ERA (but solid ERA+) and failure to reach 200 wins, Wes Ferrell’s temper doesn’t help his case. On multiple occasions, he refused to hand over the ball after his coach came to yank him from the game for pitching poorly. One one such occasion in 1934 when Red Sox manager Bucky Harris came out to relieve him, not only did he refuse to hand over the ball, but when he was finally persuaded to return to the dugout he punched himself in the jaw with his fist and slammed his head against a concrete wall. He had to be forcibly restrained to prevent him from doing further harm to himself. During the 1936 season, Ferrell walked off the field in disgust and refused to continue pitching twice in the span of five days, angered each time by his teammates’ defensive shortcomings. On the second occasion he was fined $1,000 and suspended for several days. Ferrell’s reaction was to threaten to punch the manager, Joe Cronin. (SABR)

But I hope that the attention Ferrell has gotten in the wake of Shohei Ohtani for being one of the best two way players ever will tip the scales in his favor and he’ll eventually get in. His career ERA+ of 116 is better than some other pitchers in the HOF discussion such as Luis Tiant (114) and Hershiser
(112) and as pointed out, is higher thsn a lot of guys already in the HOF.