1952 Topps Collectors - new Duke Snider variation?

[irv]

Originally Posted by skelly423

I spent nearly a year hunting for a Duke Snider for my collection, and in that time I noticed an interesting variation that kept turning up. I haven't found any mention of it in this forum, or anywhere else online, so I'm not sure it's been documented before. I'm not trying to pump and dump a card I'm hoarding, nor am I trying to make it into the next Campos or yellow tiger House, but I do think it's a legitimate variation that's worth discussing.

If you look at the bottom border there's a small white gap in the border. It's somewhat similar to the partial border Campos, albeit over a smaller space.
In my very unscientific observation of the card, it seems to appear approximately 1 in 10 cards, and I've only seen it on red back copies. Has anyone else noticed this before? Has anyone seen it on a black back version?

Great looking Duke, Sean.

[skelly423]

Thank you! I'm really happy with it.

Originally Posted by irv

Great looking Duke, Sean.

[Zach Wheat]

PSA had told me that to grade a 'variation' there had to be 2 articles published about a card and they did not consider variations that were not intended (my interpretation). Not sure what that means as they now grade the Yellow House variation, do not grade the Campos Top Border variation and will grade the red star black star variation.

The skeptics would say it is so they can make money at a later date when they start to accept the major variations, so they can get additional grading fees.

[Rich Klein]

A day later than I planned but I started looking at the 52 Topps Sniders with the COMC images.

As we keep learning things (or getting them brought to our attention) or seeing things, this is in line with some of the 1973 Topps printing issues we do list with gaps in the borders.

So I'll find what we have and create the new listings

A significant percent of all the cards we've received have that gap in the border. I don't think it's that rare but it's certainly just another challenge to the master set.

Rich

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

PSA had told me that to grade a 'variation' there had to be 2 articles published about a card and they did not consider variations that were not intended (my interpretation). Not sure what that means as they now grade the Yellow House variation, do not grade the Campos Top Border variation and will grade the red star black star variation.

The skeptics would say it is so they can make money at a later date when they start to accept the major variations, so they can get additional grading fees.

Way back in the day PSA would ask us at Beckett about some variations and would only use the determination if we called it a variation. Today what would quialify as 2 articles. We have things such if it reappeared as the Dingman E&V clist and your current project. To me that would qualify as 2 sources which might be a better way for PSA to add a new listing

Remember in their earlier years they just used T206 but especially after this board started saying, hey do something about the backs, they want to adding the back information to the T206 nomenclature

[Rich Klein]

And I'm probably setting a record for consecutive posts in any thread but if anyone wants to guide me as to whom in 52s to separate with those Gaps, I'll break them all out for COMC

Rich

[Zach Wheat]

Hey Rich,

Yes I've emailed PSA numerous times about variations and getting changes to the 1952 Topps Master List registry. They do not consider N54 to be a legit published source of info. However, they do consider their own blogs as a legit source. It is just difficult to get variations recognized.

The N54 1952 Topps Rolling Variations thread does not officially state what constitutes a variation - just that certain anomalies from the standard printing exist.

On another note, I have never seen a red stripe variation, but the old timers recognize a variation if 10 or more exist. The red strip variations at one time were collected. And I am not sure I have ever seen a red strip variation - but they are out there

[ALR-bishop]

Someone should be appointed or elected to officially define a variation.

And should we be upset that Net 54 is not a legitimate source of reliable
published information ? What can we do to turn this around ?

I personally think the 61 Ron Fairly with a green smudge in the baseball on the back of the card recognized as a variant by PSA should be the hobby standard. If we could just define it.

[CW]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

And I'm probably setting a record for consecutive posts in any thread but if anyone wants to guide me as to whom in 52s to separate with those Gaps, I'll break them all out for COMC

Rich

Nope, that record is held by Archive, who just can't shut up sometimes.

[Elberson]

I think it would be cool if somebody does an error and variation and print defect rundown for each year. Start a thread with each year set and lists all for each year in order. That would make it 10 times eaiser for everybody to see each year in order

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by CW

Nope, that record is held by Archive, who just can't shut up sometimes.

We are going to sue!

[irv]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

PSA had told me that to grade a 'variation' there had to be 2 articles published about a card and they did not consider variations that were not intended (my interpretation). Not sure what that means as they now grade the Yellow House variation, do not grade the Campos Top Border variation and will grade the red star black star variation.

The skeptics would say it is so they can make money at a later date when they start to accept the major variations, so they can get additional grading fees.

That surprises me considering what a premium that card commands and the fact the black star, on the back no less, does.

[Zach Wheat]

Yes, kind of surprising since it screws up the price tracking sites if you can't distinguish between the 2 cards. However, I guess..as Al-R has said numerous times, is how do we define a variation?

Even the Huggins & Scott auction listing the 579 card "Master Set" most would say was not complete. The old timers included 700 cards in their master set.

The Campos partial top border variation is probably the variation with the largest price difference between the 2 versions in the 1952 Topps set and at some point you have to wonder when PSA will start tracking it. The standards for classifying variations don't make a lot of sense to me.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Yes, kind of surprising since it screws up the price tracking sites if you can't distinguish between the 2 cards. However, I guess..as Al-R has said numerous times, is how do we define a variation?

Even the Huggins & Scott auction listing the 579 card "Master Set" most would say was not complete. The old timers included 700 cards in their master set.

The Campos partial top border variation is probably the variation with the largest price difference between the 2 versions in the 1952 Topps set and at some point you have to wonder when PSA will start tracking it. The standards for classifying variations don't make a lot of sense to me.

I agree, Zach.

[ALR-bishop]

The standards for classifying variations don't make a lot of sense to me.[/QUOTE]

"If you ever reach total enlightenment on what constitutes a true variation while drinking a beer, I bet it makes the beer shoot out of your nose"....Jack Handey ( with a minor adjustment)

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Yes, kind of surprising since it screws up the price tracking sites if you can't distinguish between the 2 cards. However, I guess..as Al-R has said numerous times, is how do we define a variation?

Even the Huggins & Scott auction listing the 579 card "Master Set" most would say was not complete. The old timers included 700 cards in their master set.

The Campos partial top border variation is probably the variation with the largest price difference between the 2 versions in the 1952 Topps set and at some point you have to wonder when PSA will start tracking it. The standards for classifying variations don't make a lot of sense to me.

Barring the house yellow with gray back, I'd agree. Have only seen 3 in my years of collecting