Could Caitlyn Clark compete with D1 men?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think that would be her specialty, no. Do you not think she's an exceptionally talented basketball player?

Of course. A phenomenal woman player. That doesn't make her a man. Not a sexist remark in any way, just fact. She doesn't have the strength or speed to play against skilled men at the D1 level. She'd be a huge liability on defense, and would not get open enough on offense to score many points at all.

[packs]

I don't disagree. She's not "the one". I don't think she'd be anything if she did make a Division 1 roster as a bench player. But I could see it happening.

Leilani Armenta kicked for Division 1 Jackson State last year. A lot of people might not have thought a woman would score a point in a Division 1 football game either.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of course. A phenomenal woman player. That doesn't make her a man. Not a sexist remark in any way, just fact. She doesn't have the strength or speed to play against skilled men at the D1 level. She'd be a huge liability on defense, and would not get open enough on offense to score many points at all.

Not playing defense is not as disqualifying as it used to be. As far as I can tell, Trae Young hasn't guarded anyone since he joined the NBA and he's still having a good career.

I remember the USWMT soccer team played a high school team maybe 15 years ago. The HS team was I think a select team for the local MLS team (Chicago Fire Juniors?). That HS team's players would have mostly played Division II. The boys won, but the women were competitive, so I think some of the women could have played NCAA men's soccer.

Clark would need to change her game, but I think she could earn a roster spot and some playing time on a college men's team.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[NiceDocter]

The US women’s national soccer team lost an exhibition game to an Under 15 year old boys team representing just the Dallas area 5-2. Quote was they were “ bigger, stronger, faster” .

[bk400]

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

The US women’s national soccer team lost an exhibition game to an Under 15 year old boys team representing just the Dallas area 5-2. Quote was they were “ bigger, stronger, faster” .

This is an apt comparison. Soccer is a contact sport in a way that is analogous, if not similar to basketball, and the USWNT were arguably the best women's soccer team in the world. That they lost badly to a city-wide team of 15 year olds highlights the strength and speed differences between the sexes.

There is less space on a basketball court relative to a soccer pitch, so quickness and leaping ability in basketball is more important than pure straight line speed, and contact takes place more frequently and is harder to shake. These factors probably accentuate the female disadvantage even more in basketball.

I would take the argument further and say that Caitlyn Clark would struggle 1v1 against the starting, varsity boys shooting guard at any American public high school with an enrollment of more than 1500.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bk400

This is an apt comparison. Soccer is a contact sport in a way that is analogous, if not similar to basketball, and the USWNT were arguably the best women's soccer team in the world. That they lost badly to a city-wide team of 15 year olds highlights the strength and speed differences between the sexes.

There is less space on a basketball court relative to a soccer pitch, so quickness and leaping ability in basketball is more important than pure straight line speed, and contact takes place more frequently and is harder to shake. These factors probably accentuate the female disadvantage even more in basketball.

I would take the argument further and say that Caitlyn Clark would struggle 1v1 against the starting, varsity boys shooting guard at any American public high school with an enrollment of more than 1500.

And even then I am guessing those 15 year olds instinctively were less physical in that game than they would have been with their male contemporaries. I played a lot of basketball in the day in countless venues and configurations, and on occasion women would find their way into a game (some were even accomplished players) and no self-respecting guy is going to be rough on a woman in that setting.

[Casey2296]

I'll never understand this obsession with women being a part of men's sports, we fought for 50 years so women could have their own space, title 9 anyone? Women aren't men and men aren't women.
The bigger concern is biological men invading women's spaces now, imho.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I'll never understand this obsession with women being a part of men's sports, we fought for 50 years so women could have their own space, title 9 anyone? Women aren't men and men aren't women.
The bigger concern is biological men invading women's spaces now, imho.

Ironic, indeed. Back in the day, no self respecting man would masquerade as a woman to play women's sports. But, alas, these are different times.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I'll never understand this obsession with women being a part of men's sports, we fought for 50 years so women could have their own space, title 9 anyone? Women aren't men and men aren't women.
The bigger concern is biological men invading women's spaces now, imho.

"Girls will be boys and boys will be girls, it's a mixed up mumbled up shook up world."

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I'll never understand this obsession with women being a part of men's sports, we fought for 50 years so women could have their own space, title 9 anyone? Women aren't men and men aren't women.

The bigger concern is biological men invading women's spaces now, imho.

I didn't realize there is an obsession with that. I think here we are just having a goofy conversation about how good Clark is, similar to how people liked to wonder whether the Kentucky basketball teams could have beaten the Sixers.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And even then I am guessing those 15 year olds instinctively were less physical in that game than they would have been with their male contemporaries. I played a lot of basketball in the day in countless venues and configurations, and on occasion women would find their way into a game (some were even accomplished players) and no self-respecting guy is going to be rough on a woman in that setting.

And vice versa I would think. I don't think you get accolades for putting a hip into a 14 year old boy.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[packs]

I don't know why so much is made of that scrimmage. It wasn't played under any real game condition at all and it was merely a practice for the women's team in anticipation of playing an international friendly, which I'm sure is where the effort went.

This is like suggesting the Yankees loss to the Diablos Rojos on Sunday meant anything.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

And vice versa I would think. I don't think you get accolades for putting a hip into a 14 year old boy.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Yeah I am sure the women lost because they toned down their game.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Not playing defense is not as disqualifying as it used to be. As far as I can tell, Trae Young hasn't guarded anyone since he joined the NBA and he's still having a good career.

I remember the USWMT soccer team played a high school team maybe 15 years ago. The HS team was I think a select team for the local MLS team (Chicago Fire Juniors?). That HS team's players would have mostly played Division II. The boys won, but the women were competitive, so I think some of the women could have played NCAA men's soccer.

Clark would need to change her game, but I think she could earn a roster spot and some playing time on a college men's team.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Of course's he's guarding people. If you gave an NBA team a 5-4 advantage on offense at that talent level they would win every game.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of course's he's guarding people. If you gave an NBA team a 5-4 advantage on offense at that talent level they would win every game.

Ehhhh. He does come down the court with the rest of the team but I have never seen him without help deter an opponent from taking a direct path to the basket. On occasion he will wave his arms a bit, maybe that's what you are thinking of.

[packs]

He also led the league in turnovers two years in a row. But nobody would say Trae Young isn't a great player. Which is why I agree that a knock on someone's defense isn't a real road block. There are so many other things that can be discussed in place of it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Ehhhh. He does come down the court with the rest of the team but I have never seen him without help deter an opponent from taking a direct path to the basket. On occasion he will wave his arms a bit, maybe that's what you are thinking of.

https://www.si.com/nba/hawks/news/qu...youngs-defense

Comparing a weak defender (conceded, at least so far) to a woman trying to defend a man is not IMO a useful analogy.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.si.com/nba/hawks/news/qu...youngs-defense

Comparing a weak defender (conceded, at least so far) to a woman trying to defend a man is not IMO a useful analogy.

Because, while Trae is small and weak, he's not slow?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Because, while Trae is small and weak, he's not slow?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

The physical differences between him and other NBA players do not even begin to compare to the relevant physical differences between Clark and any male player. I can't believe we're even having this discussion.