Mixed Series Boxes

[jmoran19]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

I'm happy to take on the challenge of sending BBCE a question asking for an explanation.

Just so we're clear here - is everyone comfortable Topps would not have shipped a box containing packs from multiple 'print' series back in the day?

NO legit mixed series wax packs happened all the time

[quitcrab]

I had a 1968 pack with a first series card visible on the front and a second series card visible on the back.

[JollyElm]

I haven't watched the video, but have a thought...

Is it possible the "series 2/3 box" verbiage could be referring to the cards possibly being from EITHER Series 2 or Series 3??

Did they, perchance, have wax packs with the (exact?) same graphics/text on them across multiple series, so there would be no definitive way of telling which series a pack held??

I assume the most likely answer is a big, fat NO!!, but want to put it out there just in case.

[deweyinthehall]

Just sent an e-mail to BBCE. Will advise on any response received.

[deweyinthehall]

This just in from Steve Hart - note his comment about having access to all the uncut sheets from that era...I will ask him about that.
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Hello!

On this particular wax box, the packs themselves are mixed with series 2 and 3 cards inside the packs. We identified the cards showing on most of the tops and all of the backs. They had different combinations showing (series 2 top, series 3 back……Series 3 top, series 2 back, etc). So it is not a box of mixed packs from different series like you mentioned, but mixed series within the packs. Just like the 1965 Series 2/3/4 box that was in the auction before this.



Now, this doesn’t happen very often. Packs usually only contain one series. However, we have seen everything happen. So first of all, the packs are 100% untampered with and not resealed. That I can see for myself. However, we also have access to all the uncut sheets from these years. We know how the cards would have been inserted into the packs once the sheets were cut down. And these packs are all consistent with the exact card that should have come off the sheet on top of the pack, matched up perfectly with the exact card that should be showing on back. The same was for the 1965 Topps series 2/3/4 box. This is knowledge that only a few advanced collectors have and we wont share it with the public. If we did, then that would be one more thing the people who reseal packs would know to properly put the cards where they should be on the top and bottom of packs they make. Pretty good knowledge this group of people share with us!!



As far as if I am calling it a frankenbox or a real issued box, there really isn’t anyway to tell. Now these in particular Im about 99% sure are real boxes. However, since Topps didn’t wrap boxes or use any type of seal until the early 90’s, there is just no way to tell. Now most of the time I can see that some of the wrappers in a box are a slightly different shade of colors, which obviously makes it a built box. Or centering on the wrapping is different. But if someone was to remove a few packs and replace them with a few different packs when we get into the 1970’s, its sometimes nearly impossible to tell.



When it comes to cello boxes and rack boxes, it gets even tougher. There is just no way of knowing if it is an original box or a box that has had packs removed. So all we are saying is that the packs in the box are all unopened and untampered with, but cant say for sure it is the original packs.



When you see a box that we have labeled FASC (From a Sealed Case), this is the only way we know 100% that the box has never been handled. The only way to get this put on the label is that someone has to give me an originally factory sealed full case. And then I am the only one who can open the seal. We get people all the time who tell me “I opened the flaps just to see what was inside”. Well, that’s no good. I have to open it. Or when they ship it here and the seals bust open during shipping. Still no good. Case has to get to me 100% sealed and only I can open it.





Hope this helps. Thanks! Steve



Steve Hart-Owner

[toppcat]

Wowsers!

[JollyElm]

A Plausible Theory:

If these are truly 'real' packs, then maybe it was an overabundance of Series 2 stock in Duryea, PA, that made Topps decide to alleviate themselves of the glut by throwing those cards into the mix when creating the 'new' 3rd Series packs.

"Those stupid kids won't notice."

[deweyinthehall]

I've never dealt with BBCE or any other authenticators - so an innocent question:

How can they tell from a closed pack what the top and bottom cards are with such precision? I am staring at my own 2 1966 wrappers now and I'd be hard pressed to believe someone could tell the top card given the entire image is colored - even the baseball is gray.

Also, could they be franken-packs and perhaps he's wrong about them being untampered with?

It isn't scientific by any means, but I've watched a lot of pack breaks on YouTube and have NEVER seen a pack from one series contain a mix of cards. Or, could he be using Kevvy's "checklist series" rather than "print series" approach?

Again - no experience so just wondering....